[AMunro]

Hi all,

I've been avidly reading your forum posts since I managed to convince my father-in-law (we live very close to them) that what he needed to do with his disused barn was to allow me to keep pigs!  The farmer up the road has agreed to let me take on a couple of Saddleback weaners and they'll be ready to leave their ma this weekend.  I'm so excited, I cannot tell you.  I'm a total townie - well, was, before I moved to the countryside 3 years ago and since getting heavily into 'meat', have yearned to rear my own pigs for their tasty flesh.  I'm pretty sure that when the time comes, I'll find it very hard to eat them, but my thinking is that someone will rear them for slaughter and I will most definitely give them more love than that person, so I'd rather do it than anybody else.  My friends all think I'm cruel, but I hope (and am pretty sure from what I've read), that I'm amongst people here who understand where I'm coming from....  Anyway (sorry, I do go on), I've ordered the Andy Case book and the farmer who I'm getting them from is very friendly and has given me lots of advice already, but I want to ask a few questions of you guys if I may?

- they are gilts and I'd like to take them to their optimum age / weight / size (not sure which I have to go to!).  I think this is about 9 months, but can they go older? 

- I've been shown (by the farmer) how much I should be feeding them (a mix of barley and pig pellets - the Allen & Page pellets I believe are the best?), but I'd like to give them as natural a diet as possible (and I want them to be tasty!) - we have a surplus of windfall apples and we're forever throwing peelings into the compost bin, so I know that all of that will be going into the pigs, but is there anything else inparticular that you have found they really enjoy and imparts a good taste into their meat?

- they'll bed in the barn and they'll have access to a reasonably sized plot of what's essentially mud (it's an old potato plot) - my father in law wont let them into the paddock proper because of the destruction - is there anything they'd like me to put on the soil, or will they happily snuffle around it anyway?  I feel it might be a bit boring??

- I've been told that everywhere needs to be secure as they're escape artists, but how strong does everything need to be?  If they like where they're living, will they still try to escape me?!

- they've never been 'properly' handled - how should I make a start to getting them to love me so I can scratch their tummies etc?

- the 1st night without their mum, are they going to pine?  Can I do anything to help?

I'm sure I've got a million more questions, but I hope Andy Case will be able to help me out with most of them!

Looking forward to your replies and I;ll let you know how I get on (if you're interested that is!)

Alex
x

[Hilarysmum]

Hi, its lovely to read of your enthusiasm.  Saddlebacks are lovely, Pigs at Les Rues has one, who is well known as a biter of behinds.  Very friendly just an odd sense of humour.

Your set up sounds great.  Are you using electric fencing?  Make sure they have loads of straw and a draft free area.  It might be a good idea to offer them somewhere where they can tuck themselves away and feel safe like a dog kennel (not exactly that but a small area within their area where they can get right out of the way until they feel safe.)
Go in with them, sit, keep a bucket of feed between you and them, let them come to you.  Keep talking softly and quietly.   Treat them like puppies, they'll soon come to you. 

Treats:  they love apples, especially gone over the top soft ones, bananas (although Hilary will not eat the skins) chesnuts, acorns, walnuts, any fruit.  If you can augment their feed with veggies, bread, anything to enhance their feed they will be delighted it all adds to the taste. 

We send ours at 8 months.  You can keep them as long as you like, they will get fattier as they get bigger after an optimum weight. It gets harder the longer you keep them. 

I remember reading Dan's diary on his pigs when the site first started.  Might be a good start.  Have fun, they are the most wonderful animals.  HM

[AMunro]

Oh my goodness, I'm not using electric fencing - we've got very strong galvanised fencing, and the walls of the barn are mostly stone - is electric fencing really the only way to go?  Do they burrow under stuff (sorry, am sure that's a really dumb question, well, I'm hoping it is, otherwise we've got an awful lot more work to do!)

Thank you for your other tips - their bed area will definitely be draught free and I'm got lots of straw for them to bury themselves in, I hope they'll be nice and cosy...  This again might be a really stupid question, but am I able to give them nuts in their shells, or should they just get the nut itself? 

A x

[pigsatlesrues]

Hi Alex

All the above re the tips from Hilarysmum - she started us off so you couldn't wish for better advice.

Re electric fencing - we use two or three strand fencing depending on the size of the pig. The bottom biting Saddleback mentioned is Laura and even three strand fencing she will crash if she fancies the sight of the bucket of food or the wheelbarrow of food coming towards her!! Every pig is a mystery and one might be weeks or months contained in normal fencing and then pow!! it isn't enough. They are cunning little devils and through experience we would recommend at least 2 strand fencing as a precaution. They soon learn believe me, and you will find after a zap or two they will not go to the fencing at all. We have found the wider coloured tape fencing more successful rather than the strands. It may be different for others but it works better for us.

Pigs love the nuts just as they come, shells and all,  and at the moment ours are loving their acorns and chestnuts, and also  betraves/sugar beat ( manglewurzzles.) The farmers grow the betraves here in Normandy for their dairy cows, and our pigs love them.

With regards to wether certain foods affect the taste of the meat - there are differing opinions about this. We were told that feeding apples before slaughter made a difference to the taste and texture of the meat. I am not sure that it did when comparing it to other meats later on.  I am more inclined to think that if your pig is happy then the meat will be perfect what ever it has eaten as long as it is nutritious and balanced. If you have anything to report on this later then please post it.

The Saddlebacks are slow growers so don't be tempted to feed them too much daily because all you will be doing is making them fat - it isn't good for the pig or good for your purse, and at the end your pork will suffer. Even weaners will just eat and eat, it is compulsive with them. We feed our fully grown boars at about a quarter of a ton weight around 4 kilos a day. That is a mix of seasonal fruit/veg/pig nuts/ farine/bread - what ever is available with a blanced combination. We aim to achieve around half an inch of fat with beautiful red meat and so far have achieved that. We slaughter usually from 8 months to the most recent at 18 months. That latter has been hard to part with, but we did this for two reasons -1. to attain the sized gammons for Christmas this year, and 2. to really see if what we have been told is true - that they can be grown on with the right diet, and the meat we have eaten has proven to us that it is successful. I don't think we would go beyond this age and it wouldn't be cost effective to us to this regularly, and it was hard to part with her believe me - she was a lovely.

The only thing I can tell you about the end is that if you don't feel a loss and if you haven't truely loved them and befriended them, then when you have your first meal from them you will not truely appreciate and enjoy what you are eating. For me, everyone is hard, and I do my utmost to use every bit of the pig. For me, the greatest respect and appreciation that I can give the pig is  not to waste anything.
The first one will be the hardest and it doesn't get easier, but you learn to live with what you are doing. Your pig will have had the best life, the best diet, the best friend and will be remembered, unlike the intensivly farmed pig which has no quality of life and is annonomous.

Your first pigs will be a delightful/frightening experience. You will do all your learning with them, you will make all your mistakes with them and ultimately they will test you and tease you and ultimately adour you and they will stay in your heart for ever. For all this experience your next pigs will be totally different and just when you think you have cracked it they will throw something else into the mix and you will start learning all over again. This is what makes pig keeping so enjoyable and really quite like nothing else you will ever do!!

Lastly, slaughter your pigs together otherwise it would be devistating for the one left behind.

Good luck and happy days!!

Kate

[AMunro]

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and helpful tips - something tells me I'll be needing them!  I am so grateful to be able to get to know this pair of little pigs - I'm losing sleep already at the thought of sending them to slaughter and I haven't even collected them yet!  I hope I shall do the best by them and that they turn out to be happy little (well, big) souls who've enjoyed their life to the full.

The barn is almost ready for them now (I think our handyman is more worried about their comfort than I am!) - and we're all looking forward to their arrival on Saturday morning.  Buddy (our dog) knows something's going on - he's going to be in for a shock when they come home!

Will report back to you all with how we get on!

Alex
x

[Hilarysmum]

Molly our springer adopts all the new piglets especially when mum is not around.  The mad lab Izzi is more likely to play with them, until they get too big when she finds a friendly slap from them far from rewarding.  So dont worry about Buddy, he will probably enjoy them even more than you.

Worrying about slaughter is the one thing that takes the joy from pig keeping, try not to even think about it until the day you book the abattoir.  If at all possible when you do take them, try to plan for going to see some replacements.  The empty arc can be very depressing otherwise.  Oh and its ok to cry when they go.  I do.  The m an at the abattoir keeps a box of tissues just for me.

[AMunro]

Awww, thanks Hilary's mum.  Will try.   

[Rosemary]

I would absolutely agree about the feeding - we feed 1lb for each month of age per pig per day up to a maximum of 6lbs, If they're getting other stuff, I reduce it a bit. Honestly, you're just wasting money if you feed too much And weight it - don't guess.

We don't use electric fencing - we have post and rail with and extra rail inside and we 've never had any escapees (which means the next lot will get out and roam all over the countryside, wreaking havoc).

Our dog, Tess, loves them - she would happily move in with them until they get big enough to toss her around with their snouts, then she goes off them.

We have a snak-a-ball for ours - keeps them amused for ages and gives them lots of exercise.

Don't worry too much - with healthy weaners, fed properly and kept naturally, you'll be fine. And don't worry about the abbatoir - it won't be as bad as you expect and as Kate says, it's OK to cry.

[pigman]

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement and helpful tips - something tells me I'll be needing them!  I am so grateful to be able to get to know this pair of little pigs - I'm losing sleep already at the thought of sending them to slaughter and I haven't even collected them yet!  I hope I shall do the best by them and that they turn out to be happy little (well, big) souls who've enjoyed their life to the full.

The barn is almost ready for them now (I think our handyman is more worried about their comfort than I am!) - and we're all looking forward to their arrival on Saturday morning.  Buddy (our dog) knows something's going on - he's going to be in for a shock when they come home!

Don't name them and you will find it easier to take them.  Otherwise you will always be wondering who you are eating 

Will report back to you all with how we get on!

Alex
x

[AMunro]

Too late.  They're named - I'm in love!!  They're called Edward & Tubbs & they're soooooooooooo cute!  I've started a blog - www.thevirginporker.blogspot.com - there are a couple of photos on there & I'll add more tomorrow. 

Thank you all so much for you advice.  x x x

[pigsatlesrues]

Have just had a look at the cuties - they are fab. I love the Blog by the way!

Another day tommorrow - enjoy!!

Kate

[Malc]

A strand of barbed wire at ground level all along the fence also helps discourage rooting under any barriers. Make sure gates are secure and can't be lifted off the hinges (screw the top one in upside down).

And naming them when you've only got a couple is natural. My argument when told it was a bad idea was that I would name them in my head anyway, so there was no point keeping it a secret.

Have fun.

[AMunro]

Me again folks.  Edward & Tubbs are coming along fine (I think!  It's still a bit worrying that I have absolutely no clue as to what I'm doing!!), but today I caught Edward on top of Tubbs looking like he was you-know-what-ing!  When I caught them, he jumped off, and I'm sure he couldn't have been you-know-what-ing, but I'm now a bit worried that he might be a 'quick developer' and will one day actually do the deed....  Am I worrying unnecessarily?!!  Is this 'normal' behaviour for a brother & sister so young?!

[Hilarysmum]

It is indeed.  Our babies begin life by suckling, after the last one is born they start fighting, by day two they are youknowwhating sometimes they even get the right end.  Dont worry for now.  Love the names.  HM

[AMunro]

Oh blimey HM, that's all I need!  Another teen mum in the north east of England! 

Seriously though, I assume it's not good for a brother & sister to have a litter together (if we humans are anything to go by, surely it could result in complications?  Actually, maybe an extra leg wouldn't be a bad thing - think of the extra ham..(!))  I'm kidding!  But really, at what age could this become physically possible for my little 'uns?

VP who doesn't want to be a granny before the age of 40! x