NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Goat transport  (Read 218 times)

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Goat transport
« on: October 10, 2018, 11:52:14 am »
Hello,

To take a nanny to stud, do you have to have paperwork for their transport to temporary accommodation?

Many thanks!
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bj_cardiff

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Carmarthenshire
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2018, 12:00:27 pm »
I'm not sure what you mean by temporary accommodation? If you mean that she'll only be there for a few days, then yes I imagine she would need a licence, and a standstill would also be in force for 6 days after she arrives and for 6 days when she comes back.

I just double checked my facts and found reference to an exemption on the pigmy goat society page, part 6 (link below).


http://pygmygoatclub.org.uk/index.php/general-information/2013-09-11-15-42-25/current-legal-requirements

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2018, 01:26:23 pm »
Yes, you must have a licence and observe the standstills.

Scarlet.Dragon

  • Joined May 2015
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2018, 05:00:00 pm »
Even if she's only going for half an hour to get served and returning home, you'll still have to do the movement notifications - one document for the journey from home to the stud; and one for the return.

If she's staying at the stud for a few weeks, then the same rules apply.
Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical and expecting more than others think is possible.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2018, 05:36:12 pm »
Yes, you must have a licence and observe the standstills.



You do NOT need a licence unless you are doing transport as part of an "economic activity". Movement forms required. Both your holding and the stud holding will be on stand-still afterwards - 6 days in England/Wales and 13 days in Scotland.

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 05:20:56 pm »
Sorry if I am not terminologically knowledgeable...but what does 'economic activity' mean? Like if I am having her bred...is that economic activity? That is what I am doing - having a doe bred to a stud.

Then also, may I ask what a stand-still means? I've not heard this from any stud farm so it's a new term for me.

Many thanks!

Scarlet.Dragon

  • Joined May 2015
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 05:36:11 pm »
Sorry if I am not terminologically knowledgeable...but what does 'economic activity' mean? Like if I am having her bred...is that economic activity? That is what I am doing - having a doe bred to a stud.

Then also, may I ask what a stand-still means? I've not heard this from any stud farm so it's a new term for me.

Many thanks!

Is she a pet or do you intend to sell the offspring?  If she's a pet and so is the kid there is no economic activity.  If you're breeding to sell it is an economic activity and you have to have a transporters licence (depending on the distance you're taking her).  If you pay someone else to transport her, that is an economic activity and they need to have the correct licence to do the transport.  If someone transports her for you without making a profit - you pay the fuel cost only, there is no economic activity... does that make sense?

Stand still refers to stock moving on and off the premises.  If by "stud farm" you mean horses then it's not relevant as they're neither ruminants nor cloven hooved.  It's around traceability and disease spread prevention.  If animals move onto a holding, none of the relevant species can move off that holding for the requisite time period (possibly excepting animals moved direct to slaughter).  There are some exemptions if you have an "approved quarantine" area which you can use to segregate the animals coming on and off the holding (e.g. visiting stud females plus the stud male) from the rest of the flock/herd.  That has to be checked and approved by DEFRA in order to be legal.  You can find the details on these links:

Scotland: https://www.gov.scot/Topics/farmingrural/Agriculture/animal-welfare/Diseases/MovementRestrictions/GenLicence

Wales: https://beta.gov.wales/keeping-farmed-animals

UK: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/register-land-you-use-to-keep-livestock
Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical and expecting more than others think is possible.

bj_cardiff

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Carmarthenshire
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 06:27:54 pm »
I think there is some confusion on this thread as to 'licence'

There is a movement licence, which you most certainly do need.


I think the licence referred to by Anke is a transporters licence, which you need if the journey is more than 55 miles or if its part of an economic activity.


The standstill is a period of time for any infection or contagious disease to incubate and show itself. So if you buy a goat, when you get it home you can't move any animals off your farm for 6 days.

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2018, 09:12:14 pm »
The goat is a pet... I may sell the offspring but not yet certain. Somewhat depends on gender (male may be sold) or if there are twins we may not keep both. Where does that fall?

bj_cardiff

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Carmarthenshire
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 09:22:28 pm »
The transporting law is a bit of a grey area and badly written bit of legislation. If you were transporting someone else's sheep and they paid you, that would be an economic activity, if you were transporting someone's sheep as a favour that wouldn't count and would be allowed..

Basically I wouldn't worry about it..

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 09:54:09 pm »
The goat is a pet... I may sell the offspring but not yet certain. Somewhat depends on gender (male may be sold) or if there are twins we may not keep both. Where does that fall?



No, unless your smallholding activities are classed as an economic activity by HMRC you will certainly NOT need a transporter's licence. It is a hobby (as is showing goats even if you get price money)… I don't have one and I do buy/sell goats quite a bit. Just complete the movement forms, if you are in England/Wales you can download the forms from ARAMS website.

New Riverside Farm

  • Joined Aug 2017
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2018, 09:58:32 am »
Anke,

Is it just a movement licence even if the miles exceed 55? I may be looking at a stud a bit further. I wish that there were studs dotted around in my 5 mile radius of home. But based on breed type, availability, etc. It may not be a choice to keep it as close to home as I'd like, even for the sake of fuel cost, time and difficulty on the poor goat having to be transported.

So the question is, is if it exceeds 55 miles - what then, even if it is a hobby?

Another question, out of simply interest and curiosity, are there people/agencies which do transport goats for you? It might be nice to know that sort of option is open in case we have other things happening.

Many thanks!

Scarlet.Dragon

  • Joined May 2015
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Goat transport
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2018, 11:49:38 am »
Anke,

Is it just a movement licence even if the miles exceed 55? I may be looking at a stud a bit further. I wish that there were studs dotted around in my 5 mile radius of home. But based on breed type, availability, etc. It may not be a choice to keep it as close to home as I'd like, even for the sake of fuel cost, time and difficulty on the poor goat having to be transported.

So the question is, is if it exceeds 55 miles - what then, even if it is a hobby?

Another question, out of simply interest and curiosity, are there people/agencies which do transport goats for you? It might be nice to know that sort of option is open in case we have other things happening.

Many thanks!

If it's a hobby and the animals are pets, you can transport them as far as you like without the need for a transporter licence and without having to observe the travel time limits.  It is assumed that owners of "pets" will look after their welfare, whereas those involved in commercial operations may ignore welfare in the interests of profit.  Neither of those assumptions is necessarily valid in all cases.

I disagree with Anke's interpretation of the legislation in terms of buying and selling stock not being an economic activity.  However, depending on who you're dealing with in authority, they may be flexible on interpretation and let you off with not having one.  To date, I've never been pulled over and asked about these things, and only know one person who has (a commercial guy who's constantly running stock and has all the relevant paperwork) so the chances of getting caught are relatively low.

If you are intending to keep the kids at the time you breed the doe and circumstances change later that result in you having to sell the stock, it is not an economic activity and you don't require the transporter licence.  However, you cannot claim that to be the case if you breed every year and sell every year or if you are buying and selling goats for showing, milking or other purposes.

Yes, there are hauliers that will do goat transport.  Eric Gillie (the racehorse transporter) will move goats and there are others that are regularly moving stock around the country that advertise on places like Facebook's "Goaty Friends" from time to time.  You can also probably find a local transporter through your local market or abattoir that does commercial transport of sheep, and see if they would also do goats.  However, it's likely they'd be looking for bigger numbers to transport in most cases.

Regardless of the distance or how long they're going to be wherever they're going, there is a legal requirement to complete a movement licence within 3 days of the movement occurring.  This applies even if you do not unload at your intended destination; you still need to do the movement licence there and back although if you don't unload, it's wise to put a cover note on the notification to explain why the unloading was "aborted". 
Excellence is the result of caring more than others think is wise, risking more than others think is safe, dreaming more than others think is practical and expecting more than others think is possible.

 

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