[sellickbhoy]

read an interesting wee article in bbc focus mag last night

they are working on engineering animals bred for food so that they don't feel pain

actually, they will still feel pain but they won't interpret it as unpleasant. This should mean they don't suddenly start walking into fires or impale themselves on electric fences etc.

And it does nothing to help any emotional distress they currently suffer

but, should we or shouldn't we at least think about reducing an animals physical pain if we are going to continue breeding/rearing/processing them in the way we do?

[HappyHippy]

Oh, that's an interesting one !
I don't agree with genetic engineering of animals for gain (fatter chickens, faster growing etc etc etc) BUT could kind of understand the theory behind lessening pain - ONLY if it actually benefitted the animal, and if, as you say, it has no effect on their emotional stress/distress - will it actually be worth it ?
I've never had to dispatch an animal or indeed been there while the 'deed' was done, but I have watched "Kill it Cook it Eat it" and other such programmes showing the process with all types of animal in an abbetoir setting.
My gut feeling (with what I've seen anyway) is that the animals do not suffer at the end. The way in which they are handled minimises stress for them and the death seems very quick - too quick for the animal to react ?
I've got Rustyme's voice in my head - all the possible reasons for them wanting to do this ! It's just all about creating the 'perfect' animal. How long before it's 'perfect' humans 

[gavo]

Pain in ALL animals is a safety mechanism why on earth would we take it away or alter it?Nature knows what it's doing leave it alone.

[Hardfeather]

What's the point...........unless they maybe want to butcher them alive.

[Fluffywelshsheep]

oh no thank you.
animals have already been geneticaly altered it call natural selection

Linz

[sellickbhoy]

but the way we treat "production" animals isn't natural and it leads to different diseases and pains - not least of all when they get teh bolt in the head

my inability to trust big business means i wouldn't trust them to use this as a way to make animals conditions worse and inflict more pain

so for that alone i'm against it.

but i do think - in theory the idea is a good one - if you could trust the people controlling the technology not to abuse it

[smiffy]

NOOOOOOO its so wrong!!!!

i stupidly bought some commercial broad breasted white turkeys, with the idea of breeding them next year, they have free ranged with the bourbon reds. we have dispatched the stag cos he got too heavy for his legs, and we are going to cull the hens next week before they go the same way. it is vial how these poor creatures have grown, they have done enough genetic damage.

we need to feel pain to know when to stop, if you take away pain, you take away their safety net!

[Rosemary]

Screams "wrong" - it's just a get out. What next - humans who can't feel pain. Terminator?

[RUSTYME]

Genetic engineering of anything plant or animal is just plain wrong , as you say Rosemay !!
They haven't the ability to know all the ramifications of what will happen down the road . We have been told again and again how 'safe' GM crops are , yet there is proof at every step of the way of how these crops are going wrong .
Now we have human GM / GE. Just where will this stop ? GM/GE to get rid of illness and deformity ? To create humans with more brain power ? ie less thicko's like me  ? There has been talk for a long time about creating super humans for war !!!  ... and therein is the answer. I have absolutely no doubt that someone like Monsanto will jump in on this if they aren't already there. Obtaining a patent for their gene in humans.
 This really does all sound very sci fi , but it is here and they are already doing this sort of thing , it is fact !! . Already the world is contaminated with GM food crops and others such as cotton . Now we we will have the same with human life .
This all goes back to a time not so long ago when there was a desire to create super humans , the master race !! yes Hitler and the Nazi regime . They started it, and much of the testing done in camps was toward creating the master race. There are hundreds of Germans who were created , or stolen from all over Europe , alive today , who don't even know they were part of this . The idea was to create an Aryan race of 'perfect people ' . It was called 'Lebensborn'  -  The Fount of Life :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Lebensborn.html
 Along with this super race was to be a super Germany , governing a super Europe ...yes it was the beginning of the EU .. Well they have achieved that goal , without bloodshed this time , we just let them do it !!! now they are back on track for the super human . One to do the manual work , one to fight wars etc etc . This time however they are doing it at molecular level . In the mean time , once again , there will be those who do the work till the 'New race ' is created.
 These people will be you and I , or the next generation after us. Once again we can go back to the Nazi set up. All Jews and Gypsies , homosexuals , the very old , the not so clever , the disabled the sick and anyone who didn't agree with what was being done , or who spoke out against it , were sent to camps . One of the first things that happened to those that survived the gas chambers ,' ie were useful for a time ', was they were tattooed with a number . This gave instant information on who they were, where they came from etc . The whole system was made possible by IBM's Hollerith punch card data recording machine. The machines were leased to the Nazis by IBM in full knowledge of what they were being used for :
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2udoNmQkR4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
 Well, you may say , that was then and this is now . Yes ...and here we go again . We now have RFID chips . These are in all new passports and can be put into any item that they chose to do so . These chips are just like those that we have been told again and again , "oh have them in your dog , in your horse , they will stop any theft "!! Once again we have sleep walked into it.  It is now law that they MUST be in all new foals etc . The list that is lined up for these is unending . WE are on that list ..... Without the chip RFID implant you won't be able to do anything as cash will be going for good sometime soon , and all 'Credits ' will be used from your implanted RFID chip . This is rubbish you may say . Well check out Verichip :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VeriChip
 They are a subsidiary of Applied Digital Solutions who intern receive funding directly from none other than IBM . We are there again . The only difference this time is all our governments have allowed  no , contributed to this situation to come into being . GM/GE is just a part of it . It is all for control , control the food , control the people !!, if you like the 'New World Order' , something that all top politicians speak of openly now . George Bush senior was the first to actually mention it !!! . 
 GM/GE is WRONG , but it is only one part of something much bigger, and more insidious !!!


cheers

Russ

[MiriMaran]

If they did reduce pain they would only do so to put the animal under greater pressure - more milk, meat yield.  This idea can only be to the detriment of kind common sense animal husbandry.