[Clarebelle]

I'm not really sure where best to put this query, hopefully it makes sense being here!

Basically, we are hoping to go and view a property at the weekend near pwhelli, north wales which comes with an acre but there is the option to purchase 17 additional acres. Now the estate agents have been really cagey about the status of the additional 17 acres, it took several e-mails back and forth to even establish that the land was for sale and not just for rent. Anyway, the asking price is 150k and the estate agents have said that we would need to adjust our offer depending on the amount of land we wanted to include with the sale of the property.

The problem we have now is that we have no idea how much we should be offering on top of the asking price for each additional acre we want. The land is rough grazing, a few trees dotted around. Some of it is also sand dunes, so not very productive but right on the beach. Is there somewhere I can look to find out how much land like this is worth in that area or would we need to ask around locally?

[henchard]

You really need some local knowledge. So I'd suggest that you suss out local people and other estate agents. But I'll start the ball rolling and say if it has some agricultural potential possibly around 3000 to 4000 pounds an acre.

[lachlanandmarcus]

The other thing to bear in mind is that up to a certain size threshold, larger parcels of land cost less per acre than small ones. (over that threshold you are competing not just with a neighbour farmer wanting to take on more land but with all the local farmers).


What I mean is that every horsey person would love 2-7 acres of land for their horses, as the extra could be cropped for hay, allow rotation etc. but over that amount it gets more work to manage. So plots of 2-7 acres would fetch a premium per acre.


Hopefully this means that your parcel should go for the standard rate for that quality of land in your area which a local agricultural agent will be able to tell you roughly. NB this may increase a lot if there's a farmer next door who wants it as its a huge advantage to be able to reach all your land directly when you have big machinery etc.

[Clarebelle]

Thanks guys, i see what you mean about there potentially being a premium for smaller parcels of land. Maybe we will drop round some of the local farms if we like the look of the house and ask them what they know. Hopefully they will be willing to help!   

[Bramblecot]

The average round here is now £7-8K per acre for reasonable grazing (Dorset).  However small plots sell for much more - nearby someone paid £40K for 1 1/2 acres next to their house.  Anything near the beach costs a fortune too.   With sealed bids or auctions, anything can happen and I think you will find folk rather cagey about prices.  It just depends what it is worth to you .

[lachlanandmarcus]

Thanks guys, i see what you mean about there potentially being a premium for smaller parcels of land. Maybe we will drop round some of the local farms if we like the look of the house and ask them what they know. Hopefully they will be willing to help!   

If you can possibly stretch to it I would buy as much land as you possibly can if you can avoid it becoming an arms race with the farmers, you can always sell part of it or rent it to them later but it gives you the option.


NB if you need to build a hay barn or similar, larger plots benefit from simplified planning rules whereas just a few acres does not. From memory the cut off is 12 acres(5 hectares). So if it were me I would be going for enough to qualify, but it depends if you want that much land and also as you say how much per acre it goes for.


Do tell us how you get on and what you decide in the end to do!

[Clarebelle]

Thank you, yes I will let you know how it goes. I still haven't heard back from the estate agents as to whether they can do us a viewing at the weekend 

I didn't know that about the planning differences regarding different size parcels of land so thats good to know. Ideally we would like to have the whole 17 acres but I'm not sure we will be able to afford it, it all depends really, about 7 acres is just sand dunes so unproductive so it depends what they have in mind for the whole lot together. The house and land is bordered on one side by the sea, one side by a golf course and another side by a river which marks its boundary so I'm hoping this will actually mean its not as attractive to local farmers as it doesn't exactly have easy access from the surrounding area. Ahh well, I can't keep myself from speculating! It's hard not to get too hopeful about something that looks like it has potential. 

[henchard]

If it's the property is the one I just Googled for - the extra land is subject to an Agricultural Tenancy i.e. let to someone else.

Other questions to ask; if it went to tender in August why wasn't it sold?

As it was previously an outdoor centre does it need planning permission to return to domestic use?

The postcode for the area shows that there is potential flooding on the Environment Agency website, which not only might be traumatic but will probably make insurance (and mortgage) difficult/expensive. The blue in the map below has the potential to flood.

Of course I may have the wrong property!

[Clarebelle]

Yes it is the one you are thinking of. We were aware of the agricultural tenancy although not the specific terms but the flood map is a real concern that we weren't aware of. That might put a big spanner in the works!

We have enquired about the planning, it has residential use as well as commercial use so we would be able to live there.

Thank you for your input, I wouldn't have thought to have a look at the environment agencies website. Does it tell you how regularly the area has experienced flooding?

[henchard]

Does it tell you how regularly the area has experienced flooding?

No it's just a statistical risk assessment

see

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/37837.aspx


But the dark blue areas certainly affect the attitude of insurers and mortgage companies


The fact that land has an agricultural tenancy may reduce it's value by 50% but means that you may never be able to use it (depending on the tenancy) unless the tenant leaves. You would get the rent though!

[Clarebelle]

That's interesting, 17 acres is quite a bit more than we were originally after so we would probably look to rent some of it out anyway. I guess it depends what the terms are, like you say, perhaps we would have to wait for the tenant to leave before being able to use any of the land which wouldn't be any good for us! We'll just have to see if what they tell us at the viewing. I'll let you know what they say, it might be useful to someone else in our position!

Looking at the flood map, the land is on the bit which is protected by flood defenses, i wonder if that makes much difference to the mortgage companies

[devonlad]

our house is shown in a flood area as we are within 250 metres of a river- however it would require a flood of noah like proportions to  cause us a problem sat up atop our hill. not sure it has ever caused issues with our insurance as we are quite clearly not prone to flood- only being on site could tell you the risk, but land that floods regularly should surely be hugely discounted ?! price per acre seems hugely geographical- round devon way its £7-8 k for even the ropiest bit of dock infested old pasture- like others have said the more you buy the better per unit cost usually

[Clarebelle]

I just thought I'd let you know, we decided not to go and view the property after talking over the potential problems with the flood zone. After a bit of research we discovered that insurance premiums can be very high in that area due to flood risk, that coupled with the fact that we are first time buyers with a minimal deposit as it is, we don't think we would even get a mortgage.

And above all - how devastating it would be to suffer a flood, I feel for anyone who has been through it!

Thanks to everyone for their advice and checking the environmental agency website is such a great tip for house hunting and i'll be doing it again in the future! So, backto the drawing board for us, hopefully something else will come up soon. 

[henchard]

Wise decision IMHO.

My mum was flooded three times, one insurance claim alone came to over £100,000. It was an absolute nightmare everything throughout the ground floors was destroyed with sewage contaminated water a metre deep throughout the house

Luckily we sold her house at auction (no other realistic way of selling such a property) at a knock down price and it has again flooded since.

One day insurance companies are likely going to stop accepting all insurance on such properties.

[lachlanandmarcus]

Good call. Things can go wrong that you can't foresee, so it's best to avoid the foreseeable ones!!


Good luck with the search, there's likely to be a localism TASer in the area so shout if you need any advice or help with future 'possibles'