[Ash Field Farm]

hi iam trying to find out as much info as possable on planting a new orchard  my plan is 3 fold one is for making my own cider and the 2nd one is to place our new oechard oposite our new to be pig pens so we can bring the pigs in to the orchard in the late summer once i had my cider fill of course lol and the last one is i want to set up 2 bee hives for two main reasons on is the higher polonation factor of the trees so more fruit and the other is the honey not only for me but to use as a bargoining tool for swaping goods  does any one have an idea of wat trees to plant how many any pattens and spacing  becasue all the reaserching i have done i have only found one place that could help but for a price  the orchard doesnt realy have a limtd size but i supose 1 acre would be a max
 so all ideas welcome

[MrRee]

Most of the orchards around here are planted in a grid fashion,6-7 metres between trees. I would suggest planting a variety of trees,not only apples,but pears,cherries,walnuts and even some hazel to coppice,giving you differing harvest times,and limiting the rush to make all your cider in a weekend!
  Personally,given an acre and free reign,I'd plant in a doughnut shape leaving a clearing,maybe with a pond to attract other wildlife to aid with pollination. If you're going to put pigs in the orchard,then the trees will have to be pretty well established,and individually protected with strong fencing. You could always put the pigs on the acre to start with to clear it before you plant the trees..... Ree

[MikePike]

Howdy, Brogdale.org have a decent amount of planting info and advice amongst other things. check the link mate. Hope it's useful.
http://www.brogdale.org/chooserootstock.html

[Ash Field Farm]

hey thanks for in the info iam gonna have a look up i didnt think the trees would have to be spaced as much as that i have already 2 pig pens wich iam fencing off at the mometn which are in a wooded area with 2 large ponds already for them to play in lol its bout an area already  thats y then plan was to give them the orchard pen as a rest from the wooded area and for tem to eat the wind falls saves me having to uses as much apple sauce lol would any one have an idea of what type of diffent trees to plant then and at wat ages to get them

[Rosemary]

My small piece of advice on buying trees is "don't buy mail order". We bought 14 trees about 5 years ago - most are fine but a couple are weird shapes - I fear that our Victoria Plum will collapse at some point because of the shape of the main trunk. Maybe if we had picked them ourselves we would have had better shapes - maybe not, but if I was doing it again, I'd go along to the supplier and pick my own. At least then it would be my fault!

[ducky2108]

Ok, limited knowledge of fruit trees here we come.

The size and planting spacing of you trees will depend mainly on a) type of fruit you want to grow, and b) the rootstock of the trees.

The species and types of fruit will determine, generally, how many trees you need. Some will happily self polinate, some need two trees of the same species, some two of different species and I think some may even need three trees for maximum yields. Most trees which need others to polinate are best planted within 90 m of each other, to ensure effective pollination (and the bees will help with this, definitely). Also important is when the trees are likely to flower. There's no point in getting two trees to pollinate each other, and then have one flower at the beginning of the season, and the other at the end.

Root stock is important, because that will determine the eventual size of the tree. If you're expecting a big, 5-6 m tall apple tree, and buy a dwarfing root stock, nothing in the world will make it grow over 2 m (for example). Root stock can also determine how long it will take for the trees to bear fruit, and how long it will take to reach maximum yields. To complicate matters further, each different fruit has it's own root-stock classification system.

Your best bet is to buy a book. Personally (but I don't have an orchard), I've found the "encyclopedia of gardening" which is publish by the Royal Horticultural society invaluable. It's a general gardening book, but has an excellent chapter on fruit (and one on veg too) with lots of pictures, and it explains root-stocks, flowering times and pruning really well. It might be a bit pricey - I don't know. I've had my copy for about ten years, maybe more, and think I got it from a "book club" for £10. It may be expensive, but I still hold it's worth every penny, especially if you're planning something on this scale.

God, I can waffle when I put my mind to it.

[Rosemary]

Good stuff, though.

Also, pick varieties developed in your part of the country if you can, especially if you are in northern climes. They are much more likely to do well.

[ducky2108]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/RHS-Encyclopedia-Gardening-Christopher-Brickell/dp/1405322276/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216649590&sr=8-1

That's the latest edition of the book I was talking about. That's from Amazon, but you may be able to pick it up elsewhere cheaper, or maybe even an earlier edition.

That's where the majority of my fruit-tree knowledge came from.

[stuart]

If you are going to run stock in the orchard use M25 stock [the most vigorouse] for apple trees. Probably about 15 years to get up to a size that will resist pigs rubbing and rooting. You will need to ring the pigs noses otherwise they will damage roots, better to run sheep to control vegitation. On 1 acre about 60 trees on traditional spacing [17th century] of about 20 feet between rows. We sometimes have first year calves under our juvenile trees.

[lara]

hi, i'm new to the forum today, we are moving in approx 6 weeks and desperately want to plant an orchard so i'm reading your notes with great interest.
yesterday i went to my local garden centre which is closing down - due to a break in (unfortunately i will now be out of a job as i worked there) & bought up 4 apple and 1 plum tree (25% off so couldnt miss that even though not the best time to be buying fruit trees) . i bought 'lanes prince albert'(cooking), golden delicious,'tydemans late orange',' worcester pearman' and the plum tree is 'czar', I really wanted to buy about a dozen but thought i'd better watch the pennies a bit more now.  I dont know anything much about these different trees but thought it would make a start. I also will be keeping some hens when we get settled - but thats another subject. I too have fairly unlimited space (2.5 acres) but would like to stick to about a quarter of an acre for a start & would be greatful for any advise that you have , thanks a bundle, lara

[oink]

I've been thinking of an orchard for cider myself.  Apparently an equal mixture of sweet, bittersweet and sharp apples makes the "perfect cider" - whatever that is.

These guys stock all the different types of cider apples and they've also been pretty helpful when I've emailed them question such as which trees will do best in my area;

http://www.talatonplants.co.uk/search.asp?types=yes&type=Cider+Apples

I've also seen this cheap, homemade scratter ( to crush the apples ).  It looks absolutely fantastic but I don't think I'd ever really trust myself.  Not with my DIY experience;

http://www.ukcider.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Homemade_Scratter

I'd love to know if others have ever tried anything similar.

[lara]

Hi oink, we bought another 5 apple trees for the orchard last weekend and I've found a great website which has fruit trees/bushes for sale , but is a great site as it has lots of information about pollination groups and dates and covers just about every variety ever grown so that you can work out which varieties to plant next to each other for optimum crops. check it out. www.keepers-nursery.co.uk
I think making cider is a great idea - I'll be trying that too (just have homemade wine on the go at the mo) we have a jack l'lanes juicer which we hope will do the job. do you have a recipe by any chance for cider?

[CarraghsBorderCollies]

i dont like cider but i do have 1 young apple tree 1 young victoria plum and  several small fruit bushes and plan  to plant hazel cuttings soon!

good luck with the orchard!

[oink]

Hi Lara, I haven't really got any recipes.  All I know is I'd rather not wash the apples so they can use their own yeast instead of over cleaning them and then adding yeast from the shops.  just seems more natural i guess.

actually, i just looked in my favourites on firefox and I had a page saved for cider recipes;

http://www.howtomakecider.com/recipes.php

Cheers for the link to keepers-nursery.  I'm now thinking I'd really like some nut trees!

[lara]

thanks guys, and for the link oink will definately check it out,