[Wizard]

Well thats how I look at it If I think it may upset some one I always try to say no offence intended to start with after all its only my opinion intit.On RCC I have been in real hot water for disagreeing with HFW and some of the Greenies talk about laugh.I remember I decried the 6kw wind genny  it developed and I compared it to Drax at 4000 megawatts if all the boilers were generating at the same time and asked if they knew how long a 30 tonne lorry full of willow biomass lasted in any one of the boilers 

[sagehen]

George, I think companies need to think about getting less profits if it means giving their animals a better life. Instead of a million ducks, they ought to keep less, and yes labour is expensive and the cost is passed on to the consumer, but the mass consumer needs to be aware of the true cost - cheaper ducks usually mean the duck's life wasn't a good one. Obviously in a capitalist system, the great god is profit, so that's not going to happen, which is why a lot of us are going back to the land, so we know what's going in the food we eat.

[gavo]

Much of this debate comes down to food supply and food miles.Free range usually feeds local demands;whilst intensive farming is aimed at a far larger more wide spread market.Also people have forgotten seasonal food supply ie strawberries all year round;and have lost the ability to use in season fruit and veg amongst other things.

People have also forgotten the old adage[ waste not want not;] so many only want the premium cuts of meat and huge portions ;that large quantities of quality meat  either get wasted or shipped abroad; leaving many consumers unable to afford good quality meat thus providing an outlet for intensively reared cheap unhealthy meat/eggs etc.

Perhaps more education at all levels may be an answer[home ec with unusual cuts of meat etc]

No offence taken or meant it would be boring if we all thought exactly the same although it doesn't hurt to try and "convert" a few people along the way if you know what i mean?

[ballingall]

The more I watch my animals the more difficult i find it to eat any animal that hasn't lived a free range life. I do wonder if I will end up vegetarian. I hope not. But the ducks are so sweet I'm really not sure about killing them. I wish we had a local despatcher as on the 'accidental' thread.

Marigold, you're not alone. I have a friend and her husband is vegetarian. He does eat meat, but he will only eat meat if it has been reared by his wife. So they occasionally slaughter a male goat, a sheep, chickens etc. It makes sense in a way, he only eats meat if he knows exactly how it has been treated, reared, fed and looked after.

Beth

[sagehen]

Lol Beth - a vegetarian is someone who doesn't eat any living flesh at all. My OH is a vegetarian (no animal flesh at all), and gets into a tizzy when he hears about vegetarians 'who eat fish or chicken'  Better not tell him about what you said!   

[Womble]

LOL! And all I wanted to know was whether ducks put themselves to bed or not! 

[northfifeduckling]

there you go Wombles, you've started someting off unwillingly 
back to your question: in the winter they do-  in the summer, not really! Must have to do with the light levels (did I already say that a few pages back??) 

[Wizard]

I think its a vital part of poultry keeping Putting them to bed Raynard will get them and I don't think any wire will keep him out for ever,he will find a way in.and he kills for sport or at least doesn't eat what he kills.I once saw a chicken hut with 50 dead chickens Laying hens in and the fox.Tell you what if you shoot one from 5-6 yards he doesn't half make a mess all over the side of the hut.alas he kills no more chickens

[Helencus]

so how do you round them up at night in the summer then..? feed them in the house??

[northfifeduckling]

they do learn relatively quickly where they are supposed to go. we just walk behind them until they are in the run. at the start it took 2 people to round them up but now one can do it. in the summer it can be annoying as it might be midnight and they still don't want to go to bed! just now they go by themselves by around 6 . once in the run they have a nibble and find their own way into the house - shut door.  I don't feed any birds in their house, just makes a mess and you get rats in there...