[Ladygrey]

I couldnt wish for a better friend and companion that my collie Tully is, I live on my own during the week and he is pure bliss and he even keeps my bed warm for me 

My little older sheltie Laddie was diagnosed with Masticatory Muscle Myositis after a period of illness which no one could figure out what it was

Laddie got very frail and has been on steriods ever since to halt the onset of his jaw stiffening up, this means he has had to go and live with my parents as Tully being a puppy still couldnt understand that he has to be gentle with laddie and would pounce on him and play with him too hard, also Laddie doesnt want to go on walks with me or be outside for long anymore, he is very happy at my parents house and walks around wagging his tail and barking at nothing all day long

When I got my puppy he was 5 months old and I dont think he had been out of the kennel/yard at all, I struggled to get him brave enough and he started barking at dogs and people and I asked on here what to do and everyone helped me alot (thanks!!!)

At 16 months old I think he has stopped growing, he is 22 inches at the shoulder but looks taller due to his high head stance, he weighs 25 kilos, he doesnt eat much but we have settled on a raw diet for him and he eats enough to keep him going and keep him full of energy, his spine/ribs are slightly uncomfy when he wants a cuddle on my lap    but the vet is very happy with him and says better living lean than too tubby, he will never ever eat a treat in public or outside of the house, tried everything, and i mean everything

He is very very friendly with dogs, loves playing with them and he no longer barks at anyone and is easy to walk in wide open spaces and fields/woods, he helps me with the sheep and I now could no longer do without him when I move/gather/work with sheep, he is a huge help

Sorry for the long post...

However.... I really really struggle with him in public places, it seems the more I try and socialize him the worse he gets, its so bad that I feel like crying when he is acting up

Public places mean, the mole valley farm store, pet shop, feed store, country shows, farm shows, walking him in a place with pavements and cars and people, town, villages etc

He is terrified of children playing and screaming, terrified of footballs, scared of loud sounds, but all of these only in public places, at home on the farm a gunshot can go off and he wont blink, he was out in the woods with us on friday chainsawing a tree that fell on my fence and he was so chilled, I let go of a ram by accident and he ran and grabbed its chest and held it down for me, he is two different dogs

I struggle to cope with his fears due to what he does, first off he usually trembles, giant trembles that runs through his body, he drops low and pulls very hard on the lead, tries to leap up high, he wants to get high to get away for some reason, he will try to leap on a wall, fence, bench, table, even me, if there is nothing to leap up he tries curling up into a teeny tight ball with his eyes shut and then he shuts off completely  I get funny looks carrying my "dead" furry collie back to the car I can assure you..

It doesnt help that teenagers/young kids run screaming at him saying "Lassie" but he does love the old ladies who come and talk to him softly

Its not like we are out in the town every day, but avoiding walks in the rain incase he see's someone with an umbrella is kinda bad...

Also when he is scared, I am not comforting him, I dont molly coddle him, I am not scared myself, and I tell him to snap out of it, he does it with other people not just me, so I dont (think) I am the cause of it (I hope not)

Now I know everyone may say I need to hire a dog behaviorist, but I have talked to a few and they say to socialize him more, however  I think I need to socialize him differently not more as more doesnt seem to help him

One day maybe I will shell out for a very expensive dog trainer that has some ideas, but not yet, maybe sometime in the future when I have the spare money

In the mean time, is there anyone out there whom is good with fearful dogs who I would be able to visit or chat with? forum tips would be glady received but Im really looking for some physical support or help, I dont mind traveling, just looking for someone to go to and drink tea at the kitchen table and cry about my lunitic of a dog

Tully wont take treats or toys ever, so those dont help, he is good offlead and has good recall, has good commands with the sheep and is 100% on the farm, I could just give up and just leave him on the farm but I dont want to give up yet, he is too lovely for that

[Old Shep]

aww he's lovely 


As with a lot of border collies Tully is showing he's good at what he was bred for and bad at what he wasn't bred for.  His breed wasn't bred to cope with children playing football etc..., and he can't help it.  I foster rescue dogs including a lot of collies and for the first few weeks as much as possible I keep them at home where its very quiet and away from the village.  This along with a raw diet sees them calm  down dramatically.  If I had a case like Tully I would not venture away from home with him for at least 6 weeks until he totally trusted me (you obviously have this trust), but for you at least 3 weeks to let his stress evaporate.  During this time you could draw up a one year plan (yes that long!) and have little milestones to aim for each month - starting with things that only stress him slightly.  You say he won't take treats out side, but you could reward him with affection. I know its often said that don't pet a dog when its anxious as you will reward the anxiety - but thoughts on this are changing and its now thought that dogs will interpret the show of affection as support and it will help.  This feels much more natural!


You could go to a behaviourist (there are good ones and bad ones), you could give up and leave him on the farm (that actually wouldn't be a bad life and isn't giving up!) or you could form a long term plan, be prepared for it to take years, and work through it by trial and error letting Tully tell you what works and what doesn't.  Take heart he sounds lovely and very special in his own way.

[doganjo]

I agree with everything Old Shep says - except if that is a photo of Tully he's a Rough Collie, not a Border Collie, and a show strain to boot, I'd say#y.  They are well,known to be nervous in public and show people start socializing their puppies very young - as soon as they've had their jabs they are at tesco door getting every man and his dog to speak to them.  Saturation therapy - but it doesn't always work as I've had to go over a few Roughs that I thought were going to take a nip at me.

Just take it bit by bit - training is always done in short bursts and many of them, so do the same - a five minute walk along a quiet street passing only one person 4 times in a day is far far better than a 20 minute one with a lot of hassle. Ands don't be afraid to reassure him - it's old hat to ignore a frightened dog.

[Bramblecot]

Good advice from shep and dogandjo. 
Tiny little steps and a long term plan would be my way. 

For a start, I would buy lots of cheap footballs and play lots of games with them around the farm until he was used to them - not playing with them though, just ignoring them.  Work through each of his fears, one by one, until he ignores the lot.  If he does show an interest in playing with anything (apart from the sheep), then encourage that toy as use it as a reward.  I am not a fan of food reward in most cases.

It may be that he will always be a dog that is not fond of noisy people (nothing wrong in that) so long as he is not fearful.  I was taught that you can't make a dog brave, but you can teach it to be less fearful.
One thing I would not let him do is hold down a sheep even if it seems helpful at the time.  If he is fearful of so many things, but not sheep, you could be building up trouble for the future.

Good luck, don't let it get you down, you are working hard with him.

[Ladygrey]

Thankyou for the replies, all very helpful 

Yes I think we need to start again, and make a plan for over the next year, I think I musnt push him and I know I have been guilty of that.

I have realized that I think that I have caused all of this, when someone gets a puppy at 8 weeks old the puppy is kept in a safe environment and people build up to things, because I got tully at 5 months I took him straight out with me, so maybe he never had the chance to build up a "safe haven" I should have treated him as a young puppy and slowly built up to everything.

He is a rough collie yes but no he isnt a show bred english one, his dad is from austrian and swiss lines, bred for function and health and his mum is from american lines also bred with function in mind, so he is thinner, stronger and taller with less coat than english show dogs, also they are bred for a rock solid temperament, his dad would not blink if an earthquake went off, so family-wise, tully shouldnt be like this

Good idea about the footballs! although I think its the combination of kids playing and screaming with them and not the actual balls on their own, however they would probly help!

He will play with an empty milk bottle  but not outside of the garden/house, he says he has to be on full alert to leave

I think yes, he will never be fond of noisy people, but neither am I and I dont see it as a bad thing, just would like his to stress out a little less

He is only fearful of things outside of his usual places, he is rock solid on the farm, I use him to help me with the sheep and that is partly the reason I got him, he will gather them up for me, put them in hurdles, hold them in a corner, take them away, and hold one for me, Im not sure how this could be building up trouble for the future? 

I need to him to work with the sheep and he loves it, he has a very small outrun though and in the next couple of years we would look at getting in a part trained/ready trained sheepdog but Tully would still be a yard dog/help dog

Thanks for your great post Old Shep and dogandjo, I feel reassured that I am allowed to comfort him, I was always told I shouldnt but maybe it will help him know I am there for him

Thankyou, will try and think of a plan I can get through over the next year

[Jukes Mum]

I would agree with Old Shep about keeping him at home for a while. You could use this time to build his confidence and therefore arming him with 'coping techniques' when he is in a stressful situation.  From what you have said, I get the impression that he is easy to train and is happy working. I (personally) would teach him lots of (rather useless) tricks to build his confidence. Once a dog gets a trick they generally like to demonstrate it because it pleases you so pleases them = confidence builder. I would focus on quick things like sit, down, stand, spin, touch, paw etc, you can then 'play' with him with combinations of tricks in return for a good fuss, working the sheep or his dinner. They should be really quick-fire fun tricks, one after another really quickly and random combinations so he doesn't know what's next.  It should all be good fun and fail-free to build his confidence. Once he is really enjoying these games, you can then start to set up situations with him. Move your trick sessions closer to the gate and have someone as far away as possible holding an umbrella. Hopefully he will be so happy about showing you his tricks that the scary thing is less relevant to him. Have a cue with your helper that they will walk away, or put the umbrella down before he has completed his trick  What you are trying to avoid is his brain shutting down in fearful situations.  Gradually (over many days) decrease the distance between the scary item and the trick performing Tully. Once you are 100% sure that he is perfectly comfortable in one situation, you can start from scratch on a new situation. This is very time consuming but ultimately very rewarding in that you have a tool to make your dog feel good, rather than him just coping.  Good luck!

[Old Shep]

having re-read my post its does read like I thought he was a border collie - obviously some grammatical error!  I meant he was similar to border collies in that aspect ;-)  Good luck Ladygrey, glad you are feeling happier.