[Helen Wiltshire Horn]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any ideas.  My Wiltshire Horn ram seems to be scratching a great deal.  He has scratched a big patch on his shoulder and has broken the skin which I have treated with Alamycin spray.  There are a few other patches that now look a bit crusty and red, though there is no other signs of infection.  I had a very close look and can't seen any lice.  I was wondering if it is because his winter coat is growing or is there anything else that you can suggest? 

Also, his horns are getting a bit close to his neck in places as he ages (he is about 5 now).  There is still a centimetre of clearance but I think there will be a time when they rub against his neck.  We have tried to trim a bit with a coping saw but there is one place where you just can't get the saw or rasp.  The stockman who was helping suggested cheese-wiring them off and getting the vet to cauterise them.  What do you think of this as a last resort?  I hope that we wouldn't have to take such a drastic step for while and by then he may be in the freezer as dog-food but I thought that I would ask. 
Thanks, Helen

[Fleecewife]

For the skin condition, I see no point in guessing - get a scraping to the vet for a definitive diagnosis.

For the horns - I think they won't grow much more now he's 5.   You can't take horns off to the head as they have an artery inside the pulp which would bleed massively, and they have nerves so it would be agony for the animal, unless done under general anaesthetic.  All you can trim back with on-farm methods is the cool tip, ie beyond where the inside 'live' bit is - you can feel where this is by holding the horn in your hand, when you will find that there is a sudden change of the heat of the horn.    For the cheese wire type saw (available from agric merchants), that is perfect for taking off the tips, although it's hard work.  The very tips can be cut through with hoof shears or bolt cutters, but if access is not good then the cheese wire saw is the best choice, or a junior hacksaw.
There are ways of bending horns by heating, either with a blow torch or a steaming hot neep, but I've never tried that and never will.
The only true way to avoid horns too close to the face is to breed for slightly wider horns - it can be very hereditary.
Also, dragging a sheep along by its horns will twist them and damage the look, as well as being painful to the sheep (and counterproductive as they will always resist).

[Anke]

Taking skin scrapes is quite difficult - I would treat him for scab (is it Dectomax injection?) and for lice  (Cooper's spot-on) too.

[shep53]

Please remember that if you are treating the ram you must treat any sheep in the same field, the next door fields (  fences are no barrier )   and any sheep handled in the same pen / area or handled by you without a change of clothes , so a skin scrape may prove cheaper   ??

[Helen Wiltshire Horn]

Thankfully he just has a couple of hoggets for company and my other sheep are a number of fields away.  Obviously need to get it sorted before tupping time.  I had a very close look at the weekend and can't see anything at all crawling around and thought that scab and lice were just visible to the naked eye. 
Helen

[Me]

Well you thought wrong! Hence vets take skin scrapes! Lice are visible.

[Helen Wiltshire Horn]

Me, the reason I say that is that the Novartis website says that sheep scab are just visible to the naked eye and I had an extremely close check at the weekend.  I will talk to the vet and see what they suggest. 

[Me]

I find it hard enough to see lice without a microscope I think you would be doing very well to see scab but if you are confident you can do it then go for it. Personally, assuming it is scab I would go for Cydectin LA injectable rather than Dectomax. 

[Helen Wiltshire Horn]

Thanks.  The hoggets don't seem to be affected, only my ram.  Will keep an eye on it over the next few days and if any more patches appear will take a scraping. 

[Me]

I just consulted Dr Google and they are apparently up to .75 of a mm long so this big > .  which is visible but on a sheep covered in other debris I would not trust myself to say they were NOT there, a positive diagnosis is 100% reliable you have one you have scab but a negative.................................. < bloody hell they are breeding!!   

[Foobar]

Taking skin scrapes is quite difficult

Selotape   a good place is in the arm pits (front and rear) according to my vet.

[Me]

Yes great for lice but for scab take a scrape. Its not difficult!

[shygirl]

im sure my vet used a scalpel for a skin scrape.

ref the wire, we used it as an only option but in my case it was the end of the horn which was touching tightly against the skin. then he went in the freezer.

[farmvet]

Remember scab, or suspicion, is notifiable in Scotland. SAC will examine scrapes free or your vet may do it at the surgery or on farm. I usually take the microscope out and take more samples if I strongly suspect it but don't find any mites. Usually scaping with a moistened scapel blade from the edges of the lesions is the best. areas in the fleece which are just slightly moist & skin looks slightly greasy are usually the best. Put scapel in a sealed bag with the collected debris...or better still wipe it straight onto a microscope slide.. to avoid hassles with health & safety from the lab!
If you use cydectin la watch out for the long meat withdrawal period.