[Jamie12]

Does anyone on here breed these for meat? Which is your preference as a mother, swaledale or scotch blackface?. Toyed with the idea of mules but there appears to be less of the mashams about

[SallyintNorth]

Traditionally the mother would be a Swale or one of the other north-eastern hill sheep such as Rough Fell or Dalesbred.  If a Blackie, then a Hexhamshire Blackface rather than a Scottish one.

However if you're just interested in the offspring of a Teeswater (traditionally) or Wensleydale (slightly larger) on a black-faced hill ewe, then whichever you prefer!  And whichever does best on your ground too - the Swaledale is the best forager by far, the Lanarkshire Blackie perhaps next.

For a meat lamb I guess you'd get the best result with a Hexhamshire Blackface as a mother, their frame is significantly larger than either of the Scottish Blackies.  They also may have softer fuller fleeces, so if you are interested in selling the fleece, the Hexhamshire Blackie would probably give you a nicer result too.

[Jamie12]

Thanks. In my planning stage at the moment. Ideally want a hardy outdoor mother and would like to produce fat lambs. I'd like something pedigree long term also. I'd thought about a nice hill breed such as the swaledale or blackie. But I've seen some Cheviot types which do very well locally so I've a lot to consider

[SallyintNorth]

I'm not sure why you'd be considering mashams for fat lambs?

Mules and Mashams are produced as breeding females; the male lambs do fatten but they will never be the top sellers.

Nothing out of a Swaledale or Blackie is going to be an excellent fat lamb.   And mostly they won't finish in the first year, or certainly not the majority of them.

Cheviots are excellent sheep, and the lambs sell very well as stores and when fat.  They take longer to finish, so you wouldn't get them fat in the first year - but that's why they sell well as stores.

We are on SDA ground, a hill farm in north Cumbria, and Texel type commercial ewes do well here.  So you don't necessarily need to have a traditional hill breed on hill ground, and if your objective is a fat lamb then a heftier ewe would give you a better lamb.

Another option would be Mules, either North of England or Scotch, put to a Texel.  Better conformation than what comes out of a Swale or Blackie, although still not a top fat lamb.

You could also consider Lleyn, Romney, Jacob, Black Welsh Mountain, Llanwenog, to name but a few.  They're all pretty hardy and give a reasonable fat lamb when put to a terminal sire.

Would you be wanting to get your fat lambs away in the same year?  Where/how would you be selling them?

[firther]

good advice that sally, we were using mules crossed on to a texel for a few years but they struggle to get fat. excellent mothers etc. Only got  5 left now and prob keep ewe lambs back or sell for breeding

[moony]

We have bred a fair few what I consider to be traditional mashams (Swaledale mother Wensleydale Sire) in the past and the females are superb. Absolutely loved them. Easy to sell for good money, excellent prolific breeders that produce belting lambs to a terminal sire. The males however are more of a by product and don't really fatten very well at all.

[firther]

me dad kept mashams about 20 years ago or so. Good sheep to be fair but they went out of fashion. I wonder what people will be using in 20 years fro now

[Marches Farmer]

Fashions do change.  We put our Badger Face to one of our Southdown rams for a "farmer's cross" and they sell well as stores.  Southdowns as a terminal sire are easier lambing than Texel (narrower skull) and hardier than Charollais, Vendeen or Rouge (better fleece).  Interesting article on Jacob/Southdown crosses in last week's Farmer's Guardian.

[SallyintNorth]

People always want to talk about the size of the head.  With Texels and other highly muscled meat lambs, the head is the least of the ewe's worries.  The parts that stick are the shoulders and the hips.

With horned hill breeds, there can be an issue with head size - Exmoor Horn tup lambs are born with significant horn buds, so farmers aim for all twins as a large single ram lamb's head, with his horn buds, can be rather large and hard to pass.      (BTB, Swaledale tup lambs are born without much if anything of a horn bud, so not the same issue.)