[Somewhere_by_the_river]

Having just got three new hens to add to our flock and being slightly concerned about one of them, it got me wondering - do fellow TAS poultry and waterfowl keepers have any faith in some of the 'alternative' methods of keeping your birds healthy and pest free, or do you prefer to trust to science? For example, how many use garlic and apple cider vinegar; do you trust diatomaceous earth and do you use it internally, externally or both (there are questions as to its benefits/effectiveness/risks); do you use ivermectin or other things that require egg withdrawal or do you prefer to avoid them? Do you prefer prevention or cure, or a bit of both? Anyone go the whole holistic route and put flowers in their bedding as well? I've heard of one lady who lines their nest boxes with lavender, just because she thinks it's nice and smells good to them too...

Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts...
 

[lord flynn]

I'm a scientist, so I use science. I think things like DE have a place in prevention but not solely in treatment. If my animals have worms, I worm them-I make sure I dose correctly by weight.  I don't care if something needs egg withdrawal-I would rather it worked. I also don't spend a huge amount of vet bills on chooks-they get a chance and first round treatment and if that doesnt work then I cull. Might seem unfair but by the time a chicken shows you its ill then I believe its suffering-and I don't think taking one to a busy vets surgery does them many favours either but then mine are not tame.

I did a spell in a VLA lab, I saw first hand at the parasitic burden 'organic' animals carried. I would prefer to control it effectively.

[in the hills]

I think there is a place for both. 

I use apple cider vinegar and have used garlic in their water. Not sure if there is much scientific evidence to prove they work ...... never looked into it.

I worm them though with Flubenvet because I know they have had worms at times and we have loads of pesky pheasants that bring worms with them. 

Use Vaseline for scaly leg because I've used it and know that it works effectively ..... so why use a chemical?

Use d. earth but doesn't seem to always work so then reach for the chemicals.

Lavender/ herbs in the boxes may well be a good idea. Watched a programme a couple of weeks back with my daughter. Showed how wild birds often lined their nests with herbs they collected. Believed to be a means of keeping creepy crawlies away. Showed starlings and eagles doing it. Think it said that starlings who used herbs reared a larger percentage of chicks than those that didn't.

Birds also used fire piles etc for bathing  .... again for parasite control. We always put ash from our burner in the chickens dust baths.

We use 'natural' where possible to try and pevent/help but do use chemicals if there is a real problem.

[chrismahon]

Interesting question SBTR. I think we are close to Lord Flynn and In-the-Hills in many respects. In our case it certainly isn't a fundamental policy, but simple trial and error. Never used Diatom (heard it helps but is expensive) but certainly wouldn't use it internally. Tried ACV but saw no benefit -certainly didn't work on worms even used once a month, probably because it needs 3% and at that it is totally unpalatable. We put no additives in water, just give them good quality food (no chemical colourants, yolk enhancers they call them), fresh fruit and veg when available and grass. The only wormer I trust is Flubenvet, having been lured into trying Verm-X (which has some effect so could be used in-between). We avoid Ivermectin because there are many alternatives which just take more effort. We use onions to control Cankers -with limited success. We do prevention and cure, focussing on maintaining a stress free environment. We haven't seen a vet (apart from export) for years and our vet learned a lot from our weird cases. As we check poos daily, and talk to our birds a lot (well I do) problems are spotted immediately, so we don't get that many problems (although Carbon Monoxide poisoning took a long time to figure out). Potash works well for lice and perhaps most mites but isn't much good with red mite -experimented recently and concluded creosote is the only way, or a plastic coop. We rarely cull, or need to, because we spot problems early (generally). Just accidents or meat birds. The key to keeping your hens healthy I think (apart from good husbandry) is minimising stress- just like humans really.

[shygirl]

theres a lot to be said for a closed flock, good hygiene and land rotation and low stocking densities. however we use meds when required as pests are hard to get rid of once they become established.

[HesterF]

Same as above. Try to have low stocking (currently most highly stocked pen have 12m2 per bird but also free range when I'm out in the garden) and rotation onto fresh ground. I'm sure cider vinegar helps to boost their natural immunity but I tend to use metal drinkers which rules them out - as does using it with waterfowl who spread litres of water all over the place every day, most of which never gets drunk. I use diatomaceous earth because I understand how it works and I had bad red mite last year - only cleared up by liberal use of creosote which I'd rather not use too frequently.

But I do try and worm regularly with flubenvet pellets (not sure how effective it is given how much free ranging the birds do) and if I've a sick bird, they go to the vets and I'll use the appropriate medication.

Similar principle to my gardening really  - I try and boost everything naturally but if that fails, I'm happy to use chemicals.

[JulieWall]

Agree with Shygirl, good hygiene and bio security are your best allies in keeping healthy animals and birds. Natural remedies are great used for prevention but sometimes you just have to be sensible and get something more effective from the vet.

[HesterF]

I was thinking and although things like cider vinegar are older, they're still 'chemicals' - just less effective ones for targeting worms than the modern alternatives. Mind you even water is a chemical! Defining natural is hard - I guess anything that occurs in nature? But even vinegar is a follow on product from fermentation so it's unlikely that all that many chickens would come across it in nature.

[AndynJ]

We eat lots of garlic & drink lots of cider but it doesn't seem to help the chickens at all   

We medicate in their pellets as prevention, we use a powder to keep off red mite
We use ash on the floor, under their bedding and as a bath that seems to help them no end

The only vet bills are autopsies last year when we lost a few in a row, we have a chicken only vets just up the road, how unusual is that.

I wee around their housing keep the foxes/badgers away, I try to shoot the pigeons (I believe most infections come from these)

[jaykay]

I use what's effective. I worm with flubenvet, I use Vaseline (or sometimes dunk the foot in Crovect) for scaly leg mite. I dust under perches with diatomaceous earth, but also use Total mite kill.

[little blue]

Birds also used fire piles etc for bathing  .... again for parasite control. We always put ash from our burner in the chickens dust baths.

Do you put it in "neat" or let it stand for a while?

We have solid fuel (wood, eco coal etc) range - Been wondering, can I just cool the ashes and put in dust bath do you think, or is it "harsh" and too caustic?

[in the hills]

Ours is just wood ash from the wood burner. We just pop it in 'neat', yes. We put it in their existing favourite dust bath area which is under conifers. I suppose it does get diluted pretty quickly as there is lots of very dry dust under there from all their scraping around. Think I read that it's fine so long as it's dry. Never had any problems with it. Put some in for quails dust bath too.

[little blue]

thanks

[northfifeduckling]

Wood ash and diatom in the houses (usually dry is enough,  if mites are evident I paint the inside of the house in diatom paste) , diatom to dust the chooks and flubenvet ready mixed pellets for worming.