[Whittsend]

Yesterday morning , after posting my  " sour smelling poo" worry,  and getting encouraging replies, I felt a bit less anxious and took Dylan out into one of our paddocks for a spot of sunshine and a race around. He seemed so full of the joys of being a spring lamb that I reasoned he must be OK ,to be so lively, and I was creating problems where there weren't any.  In a matter of seconds a neighbours Cairn terrier( usually securely fenced in) shot through the bars of the gate and raced towards the lamb. I ran and scooped the lamb up, relieved that I had got to him before the dog, but the dog jumped up, snapping, and bit off about an inch and a half of Dylan's tail.  We are surrounded by fields full of ewes (and lambs at the moment) and the very elderly man who ownes this dog has spent hours threading wire through  the stock fencing around his little plot of land to keep his dog away from the sheep. I probably completely over reacted, but, after stopping the tail bleeding and spraying with Leucillin I got my husband to drive us the ten miles into Rhuthun to the vets. The vet said that the tail would be fine and gave him a shot of antibiotics in case of infection, from his rather loose poo. Today he seems non the worse for the experience and has spent most of he day around the farmyard with me. In fact he is spending his first night out of the house and is bedded down on barley straw ( with hay, creep feed, and water ) in the stable next to the one my horse is in. I shall bottle feed him twice overnight, to be sure he has the energy to cope with the change in temperature this first night. My neighbour was dreadfully upset when I told him and wanted to pay the vet's bill but I felt so sorry for him I said he should  spend the money on more fencing before his dog gets  out again and ends up being shot by one of the farmers. We will be putting extra wire mess on our road gates this week!

[devonlad]

glad Dylan is progressing. sorry to hear about the dog incident. seems the neighbour is at least doing his best but for me all the fencing in the world is unlikely to make a field, terrier proof. that dog needs sheep training and fast- if it had grabbed one of my lambs I shudder to think what I would have done to it. when my wife and I first got together I lived on the edge of Dartmoor- sheep country and she came from up the line with a cross bred terrier who chased anything that moved and was more than fascinated by sheep- and especially lambs. today, 7 years later he comes out across the field with me to check the sheep and does not bat an eyelid. he was taught in no uncertain terms very early on that sheep were not to be chased- not pretty and not pleasant but he was left in no doubt. not sure I could live next door to such a risk to my precious girls - something would have to happen immediately

[MarvinH]

sounds like you have a decent neighbour.

[Mammyshaz]

Sorry to hear about the poor lamb. It must have been an awful situation but sounds like you handled the situation well and the neighbour sounds genuinely upset enough to use extra security for the terrier. 

[Fleecewife]

A couple of dunts from a feisty ewe with lambs to defend will soon put the Cairn off chasing sheep.  Our cairn got this treatment when she was just being friendly with our ewes and she will now go a very long way round to avoid certain of the ewes, especially when they have young lambs.
It will be so stressful for your neighbour worrying about his dog, so would it be worth suggesting to him that you could work together over the problem?  It sounds as if he wants to do the right thing and hasn't been careless with the dog.  Terriers are so difficult to keep in, especially as they can both dig under and climb over sheep mesh fences.  They don't tend to jump over but can be small enough to squeeze through the mesh, so prevention would be better than dealing with another attack and having your elderly neighbour devastated to lose his dog and you distressed at losing sheep or lambs.
Putting the dog in the pen with an indignant ewe sounds cruel, but can be a most effective way to deal with a problem dog.

[ZaktheLad]

If your lamb already has his tail banded, then I suspect he hardly felt the bite as the part of the tail below the band will be dying off anyway, ready to drop off in time.  Still, a horrible experience for you and Dylan - it was lucky that you were so quick to grab him out of the way as could have been so much worse.   Dylan sounds like he is doing well and is being very well cared for.  One lucky little chap.

[Me]

The ewe/lamb/dog method can be effective, but be warned it is extremely unpleasant for all involved (or it doesn't work). It can work well though, particularly for making an impression on young dogs who have never chased. It doesn't work quite as well with dogs who have worried in the past and there are a few things that can go wrong:

You allow the dog to jump out after a few clouts and it doesn't get the message

The dog attacks the ewe in self defence and injures her

The ewe attacks the dog more effectively than you would have imagined possible (I have scars on my arm 20 years old to attest to this very possibility) - broken bones are a real risk

The dog "blames" you for the situation and you loose its trust

The ewe fails to attack the dog

Choose your dog and your ewe for this method carefully and commit if you do decide to do it or it is nasty for no reason 

[sabrina]

When I was young ( many years ago now ) my uncle used to put a sheep chasing dog in with the tup.  If only people would train dogs not to chase the likes  of chickens and sheep or at least stop on command. right from pups all my dogs have been train to the word leave. Even my Jack Russell who people told me would be impossible to train not to chase. I know if I was not around he might forget himself but the word leave does stop him in his tracks. At 10wks old Isla had already learnt the meaning of this word and knows chickens, cats and ponies are not there for her to play with. On saying that Barnaby our grey cat thinks Isla is a new friend for him to chat up 

[Marches Farmer]

Never underestimate how feisty a terrier can be.  If you put one in with a horned ram coming up to tupping time a full grown terrier might get the message.  On the other hand there might not be much of the terrier left.

[in the hills]

I've never seen this method actually used but I'd be very reluctant to try it for the reasons stated by 'ME'. Terriers are good at escaping though. Father is having trouble with his neighbours terrier getting onto his land and chasing poultry. Seems to use every possible means of escape! Neighbour is elderly so although it is her responsibility dad is securing the boundary as much as he can. Even wiring underground as dog digs his way in.

I'm having the opposite problem at the moment. Our lab puppy,9 months now, has always been very respectful of chickens, sheep and our cat. I haven't had to teach her she is just that way. Sheep have clicked that they are the boss and engage in what can only be described as 'dog worrying'!  Pup will even hide in the stream or gets behind my legs for protection.

Hope lamb is getting over it now.

[Fleecewife]

Yes I too would be concerned about shutting a dog in a pen with a sheep of either sex.  When our cairn got 'the treatment' it was out in the field and repeated a few times whenever she got too close to the ewes.  With the dog on the lead, it soon gets the message that angry ewes are to be dreaded and are not for chasing.  I suppose in our case things were slightly different as Lucy had never chased a sheep or the poultry but was quite friendly with them.  It was the fact that her chums the sheep were suddenly transmogrified into rampaging, dog hating demons once they had a couple of lambs beside them that she had to learn.

Nonetheless I think it's important to try to teach this dog not to chase, rather than trying to rely solely on preventing it getting out.  Having found what fun chasing sheep is, the dog will do it again at every opportunity unless taught not to.  It is a very stressful situation for both sides - you and your neighbour - so best dealt with in a mutually supportive way.

When we first came here we had to have a beautiful young dog destroyed as she ran down our neighbour's in-lamb flock and attacked some.  That was nearly 20 years ago but the awfulness and pain hasn't left me, which is why I am sympathetic to both sides in your situation Whittsend.

[SallyintNorth]

  to all those who have had sheep attacked by dogs, and also to those whose dogs have attacked sheep and who feel that, as does Fleecewife and as do I.


With my dog that was bad with sheep, I was advised to shut him in with a tup, but my vet begged me not to do it.  He said that farmers would do it, and the odd dog that didn't survive was accepted.  With my very much loved rescue dog, he really didn't want me to have the grief of handling the kind of damage that could result. 

Next I tried devonlad's solution - hopeless.  Could I beat my dog with a stick?  I may as well have tried to fly to the moon.    So I took him to see friends who felt they could help me with that training.  They were useless too.  (He was a really nice dog  .)  Wish I'd known you then, devonlad! 

Taking him to see a ewe with lambs wasn't suggested and I don't know if I would, at the time, have found a farmer who would help.  Having had a young ewe die from stress after an altercation with a dog that was actually only being friendly with her lambs, I don't think I would be volunteering to let anyone bring their dog near one of my ewes - however much I may applaud their wanting to get their dog made sheep safe.