[Penninehillbilly]

Hi
My goats are due at the end of March, is it too late to Heptovac them? I missed last year so presume they would need a follow up shot?
And if I can only get Lamivac isthat the same thing?

[fsmnutter]

Heptavac covers more strains of Clostridium than Lambivac, however, goats produce a poorer immune response than sheep to clostridia, so common recommendations are to use Lambivac as you get a better response to the strains that are in it, rather than a weaker response to more diseases. The extra strains are less common, so are generally not worth risking reduced immunity to tetanus, pulpy kidney, struck and lamb dysentery (can also affect kids)
Also, goats should be vaccinated every 6 months instead of annually to keep up their immunity, as it wears off quicker than in sheep.
If they missed last year, they should have had vaccines at 4-6 and 8-10 weeks (4 weeks apart) pre-kidding to stimulate enough immunity to be passed in the colostrum to the kids. Kids can be vaccinated from 3 weeks, again with two shots 4 weeks apart.
I would highly recommend getting the dams vaccinated soon as possible, that way you will get a second vaccination in (4 weeks after the first) before they are due to kid, and will give some protection to the newborns, certainly more than if they hadn't had any vaccinations before kidding.
My goats are done according to this schedule - with two shots of Lambivac 4 weeks apart, then a booster every 6 months, and a booster 4-6 weeks pre-kidding.
Hope that helps
Suzanne

[Penninehillbilly]

Thanks, that's very helpful, I'll get on with it.
should I do the milker as well and would there be a withdrawal period?
also going to worm the milker, any ideas if I can Lambivac and worm close together?
(worming today, might be a couple of days before I can get out for Lambivac)
 

[Anke]

I would leave a couple of days between worming and vaccinating. as far as I know there is no withdrawal period on vaccines, certainly no meat withdrawal.

[fsmnutter]

No withdrawal on vaccines, milk or meat.
Worming depends on the wormer used, there are certain wormers that have no milk withdrawal in cattle, but obviously there's never anything licensed for goats, but if no cattle milk withdrawal, often that's good enough.
I've been looking into it lately, and if you're needing fluke treatment, and are EVER intending to milk your goat/sheep/cow, the regulations have recently become much more strict, and there's certain products that can't be used even in young animals that will become milkers eventually.
Its up to you how you do the treatments, and goats often aren't nearly as upset about the handling as sheep are! I've often heard it suggested that you do no more than 3 things to an animal on handling in one day, eg. worm, fluke and vaccinate, rather than multiple vaccines, treatments, foot trimming, weaning etc all on the same day, as it gives the animal's immune system a chance to work on 3 things, rather than overloading it.
Should be fine to worm, then vaccinate in a couple of days when you can get hold of it, but do check your milk withdrawal period on the wormer (usually fair estimate is to use either the same withdrawal as cattle milk withdrawal if the dose is similar, or as goats often require a high dose of wormer, having such high metabolic rates, a withdrawal of 7 days for milk is usually your statutory maximum, and should leave most things out of the system).
All the best with them
Suzanne

[Penninehillbilly]

Thanks, I have wormed them, it has a 3 day withdrawal period for meat, but I always leave them for 7 days before using the milk anyway.
I've never thought of a cattle wormer, I'll ask a dairyfarmer friend how he goes on, I can't see him worming in mid lactation if he has to throw the milk away, unless they can feed it to calves.
IF the regulations have been tightened up, is there a list or advice on what we can/can't use?

[fsmnutter]

The withdrawals are always listed on the datasheet - if you look online you can always get the most up to date version, may differ to the label sometimes. NOAH compendium contains most drugs.
The key ones that have changed are triclabendazole, almost all formulations of which cannot be used for milking animals, or milking animals to be, except Fasinex 240, which is licensed in dairy cattle, with a 60 day milk withdrawal, so used in maiden heifers before calving, or dairy cattle early dry period. This allows all stages of fluke to be killed as none of the other flukicides can kill the very juvenile fluke.
The other products that can be used in milking animals are albendazole and oxyclozanide, so you can look at all the options.
I think Eprinex in cattle is the 0 milk withdrawal one for regular worms (the flukicide albendazole also covers roundworms)
3 day meat withdrawal sounds quite short, so your wormer may very well have a low withdrawal for milk as well.
All the best
Suzanne

[Penninehillbilly]

Thanks Suzanne I suppose I should have asked this under the 'worming' post I started, others may have found that useful.
The one I've used is 'albendazole oxide' based so that's OK,
The other I've used is Combinex, just found this, not obvious till after I noticed 'triclabendazole' further down the information, it only mentioned 'levamisole & Fasinex' at the top.
 
'Following a change to the guidance for the use of combination products including flukicides in milk-producing animals by the VMD, Combinex is not authorised for use in animals producing milk for human consumption, including during the dry period. In ewes which are intended to produce milk for human consumption, Combinex cannot be used from one year prior to the first lambing.'
 
I'd better keep a note of all this for future use,