[ScotsGirl]

Any idea how long a black welsh can take to pop out first lamb? I went over at 7 this morning and she was calling gently and wandering around. Thought fox might have taken lamb as fluid sac dangling. Anyway went away to walk dogs etc and came back.


She seems nervous but is definitely pushing. She lay by feeder chewing hay and pushing but them got up and trotted off with others. I can't get near until help arrives later but when should I worry? Thought they were supposed to be easy lambers. I'm going to leave her a while as she doesn't seem to like an audience.

[SallyintNorth]

When you say 'fluid sack' do you mean water bag?  Like a pinkish water-filled balloon?  If so, she could be anything from 20 minutes to a few hours - but usually one would expect to see a foot within an hour or less.

Even easy lambers get malpresentations and other problems sometimes.  Hopefully it's just early stages and she'll get on with the job just fine - but yes, keep an eye every 15 minutes or so.

How long before help arrives?  Could you tempt her into a pen, shed or something if you needed to?

[Sbom]

I'd be catching and checking her.......if you got there at seven you don't know how long she's been on. It's either early stages or she's got a problem 

[Marches Farmer]

I'd check her straight away.  If she's a first timer it could take a while before she gets serious about pushing but if the lamb is malpresented it may be across the opening to the cervix, which won't dilate.  The contractions will cause stress to the lamb, which may die of exhaustion. 

[Foobar]

Scotsgirl - how did you get on?  I would have expected to see a lamb after an hour of the water bag appearing, or else I'd be having a closer look.

[ScotsGirl]

She aborted. Fully formed lamb but very small and she hadn't bagged up so I'd say at least 4 weeks or more to go.  Would Heptavac cause this? I did them Saturday as thought they were due march. One might have had a double dose cos I thought I'd missed her.


Still waiting for a vet to call me. Should I just let her go or does she need some medication?

[fsmnutter]

If possible, keep her isolated from the others, some causes of abortion are contagious, and could spread to the others. If done with Heptavac at the weekend, sometimes the stress of catching and handling can cause abortions. Have any of them been vaccinated against enzootic abortion or Toxoplasmosis? A fully formed, small lamb, but not mummified could be a sign of enzootic abortion, but like I said, it may be handling them or some other upset to the ewe herself, whether she's had a knock, a chill or even an infection somewhere internally that's not affecting her so anyone would notice.
If you wanted to find out what's going on, the vet can let you know where your local vet lab is, which would be able to do a postmortem if you brought them the lamb (and placenta if possible as it is very useful in diagnosis of abortion). If she is the only one that aborts, it may just be one of those things, but if you had more than one, it would certainly be worth testing lambs to see if you have a herd problem, as either of the causes above can be controlled with vaccination for next year, and if enzootic abortion, giving the other ewes treatment can reduce the numbers affected this year.
If the ewe herself is bright and eating, she should be fine, but like I say, if infectious cause, keeping the other ewes away from her, and the area she has lambed, burning any straw she may have lambed on, or spraying some disinfectant in the area is also worth doing to prevent any spread.
Sorry for your loss, and hope the others are OK, and the advice can help you somewhat.
Suzanne

[ScotsGirl]

Thanks Suzanne, I was just looking for your details to message you! She was a first timer and although they are flighty stress was minimal but could well be that.  She is in a field so no bedding. If open her surely that will stress her more? I can't bring her in as Suffolks are lambing and goats in other shed.


When I felt them all at weekend only one had bagged up and as it wasn't this one I couldn't understand it.  Is there any chance she has another lamb in her or do they abort everything?  I will try and pen her with another quiet ewe for now.

[Foobar]

Urgh, very sorry to hear that . 
As fsmnutter says, isolate her (do you have any non-breeding or male animals she could go in with?), and clean up all fluids etc.  Get a postmortum so you know what you're dealing with, also might be worth a test for the dreaded Schmallenberg?

[Foobar]

If you have some, put down some dry disinfecting powder (e.g. Stalosan etc) on the grass where she lambed to kill any nasties.

[Marches Farmer]

Have you seen the placenta appear?  It can often take longer in an aborted ewe.  Keep a close eye on her and if she looks poorly, picks at food or has an unusual discharge (especially if it's smelly) a/b may be in order.