Author Topic: Tupping Holiday or Club 18-30 (Read 4983 times)

Pedwardine · « **on:** May 11, 2012, 03:49:38 pm »

Hi, I'm in process of selling some of our yearling ewes to breeders in adjacent counties who can't also accommodate a ram. The plan is that girls come back for a tupping holiday in November. What I need to know is what should I be charging for the work of my ram tupping their ewes on my patch and what period of time I should be looking at for the ewes to stay. I'd considered around six weeks to cover a couple of cycles and as the girls are the ONLY sheep these people will have ie: not mixing with others or on land where others have been, do I need to do the usual quarantine of 48hours before putting out with my flock?

Haylo-peapod · « **Reply #1 on:** May 11, 2012, 05:21:33 pm »

6 weeks sounds like a reasonable time but you might want to consider using a raddle so you know who has been tupped and who hasn't. We used to borrow a ram when we first started and used to pay £5/ewe. Obviously the ewes will be on your land and eating your grass so you also need to consider this additional cost.

Certainly be very careful about any sheep coming onto your land and make sure they are wormed and don't have orf. Last year a gentleman was going to bring his ewes to us for tupping but at the last minute he discovered one of them had pink eye and fortunately had the decency to let me know. Consequently the ewes never came as it is a highly infectious disease.

MrsJ · « **Reply #2 on:** May 11, 2012, 06:44:30 pm »

We've always been very lucky in that friends have let us send our ewes to them to put in with their flock to be tupped (there were only a maximum of 6 of them!). He wouldnt charge us but a bottle of whisky always went down well.

smudger · « **Reply #3 on:** May 11, 2012, 09:02:29 pm »

No expert, but I would quarantine if they have been away from your land. Where does the 48hrs come from? I though you should allow 3 weeks ideally? I presume you don't have the ;and/space to keep them and sell 'in tup'?

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #4 on:** May 12, 2012, 01:25:08 am »

Two cycles would be 34 days, so 6 weeks would be well plenty.

You should certainly charge 'keep' - I've heard folks up here talk about 50p/ewe/head/day. If you also charged for the tup you could make that charge a 'no lamb no fee' arrangement, but would still have their keep paid for.

You will of course make sure the girls are all wormed, fluked and mineralled if appropriate before visiting? I'd footbath and keep on hardstanding for 48 hours, yes, before letting them out onto my own ground.

Would you ask your customers to vaccinate their ewes against infectious abortion? Maybe not an issue if you're only selling these ewes now, but perhaps a worthwhile precaution in future years.

lachlanandmarcus · « **Reply #5 on:** May 12, 2012, 07:34:00 am »

dont forget about the standstill that will be triggered every time a set of ewes comes onto your land. In Scotland breeding tups are exempt I think, but ewes are definitely covered.

For England and Wales the rules say(defra quote)
"Whenever cattle, sheep, goats or pigs are moved onto a farm no cattle, sheep or goats may move off for a period of six days. Pigs have to remain under standstill for 6 days where cattle, sheep and goats have been moved on to a holding."

Pedwardine · « **Reply #6 on:** May 12, 2012, 08:03:12 am »

Thanks guys for your feedback.
Smudger, it has always been my belief that the 48 hours quarantine (preferably on hard standing with hay and water available to the animals) effectively flushes any parasites acquired from the previous holding before being put on your own. My buyers wanted to get to know their ewes before any babies came into the scenario hence not selling 'in tup'. I have sold pregnant ewes previously.
Lachlanandmarcus, if the sheep are within my holding both in quarantine and the tupping does that classify as coming within the standstill ruling?
Good point Sally about worming/vaccines as that's something I'd normally carry out as part of my routine so I'll make sure whatever I do for mine the other breeder does the same for theirs, yes? What is the vaccine against infectious abortion, I'm not familiar with a separate vaccine for that. My sheep get Heptavacced, alternate wormers & Dectomaxed regularly. Am I missing a vital vaccine? Is it just something that is applicable with other breeders' ewes coming to my holding or is it something I should be doing?
Haylo-peapod, I always use a raddle so I can get a fairly accurate window of who is due when.
Bear in mind that these ewes are all from my own stock and are not mixing at the new holding with other sheep though some may end up being adjacent to horses (I've advised against co-habitation due to the danger of kicking) though equines and ovines aren't affected by the same parasites anyway which is why sheep are good for 'cleaning up' pasture horses have occupied. I wouldn't entertain someone elses strange stock for a tupping visit. It seemed a good solution in just these two cases. It looks like it may be worth getting my buyers to get a vet check the girls for any possible nasties prior to the visit and the visit being subject to a vet's report. What do you think? So, if I charge 50p/per ewe/per day plus £5 for each ewe for tupping (the latter being refundable if no lambs), does that sound reasonable? I ought to add that these are pedigree sheep, should I charge a bit more?

lachlanandmarcus · « **Reply #7 on:** May 12, 2012, 08:22:13 am »

I believe you would be hit by the standstill regulations.

Whatever quarantine you do of the animals when they come on, you are still not allowed to take any off for 6 days, the quarantining is for your benefit and may stop disease being passed to your animals or to the new animals but the rules are intended to protect animal health and to make sure that whatever diseases may or may not be present, they dont pass through your holding so fast that if a disease outbreak occurs somewhere you are or have been that the authorities have enough time to get to the animals before they move on so quickly that they never catch up.

I checked whether having a separate linked holding under a Sole Occupancy authority would give any exemption but no, it is only movements between the SOA linked holdings you have that are exempt, no exemptions for animals coming in from outside.
this is what the rules state (Eng and Wales)
"Sole Occupancy Authorities (SOAs). Movements between premises linked by a SOA do
not trigger a standstill. However, a movement of cattle, sheep or goats onto any of the
SOA premises from outside the SOA grouping prevents animals from moving off any of the
SOA premises to a destination outside that SOA grouping for 6 days. If the animal moving
on is a pig, no other pigs may move off for 20 days; cattle, sheep and goats may not be
moved off for 6 days."

Pedwardine · « **Reply #8 on:** May 12, 2012, 11:22:12 am »

Thanks L&M. Really helpful info. I'll keep the new girls separate for six days. Bless you for lookng into that.

SallyintNorth · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2012, 11:53:14 am »

Pedwardine, I don't think you need to keep the incomers seperate for 6 days unless you are wanting to move stock off your own holding within those 6 days. If that were the case, then the incomers would need to be in a Defra-approved isolation facility in order to not trigger a holding-wide 6-day standstill.

But if you don't need to move anything off your holding for a week after the incomers arrive, then the 6-day standstill won't cause you any inconvenience, so you wouldn't need to isolate them - unless you wanted to for your own reasons.

Re: infectious abortion, there are several causes but the one I was thinking about is Enzootic Infectious Abortion (EAE), caused by chlamydia. It is spread by contact with aborted materials from infected ewes and by contact with vaginal discharges from infected ewes at tupping time.

Infected ewes will usually abort their next crop of lambs, or have weak lambs that die shortly after birth. Thereafter that ewe will be immune.

You clearly don't have EAE in your flock at the moment, so it would probably be prudent to require incoming ewes to be vaccinated in order to ensure that they can't be bringing it onto your holding. They could become infected by contact with infected materials / discharges on their home holding, or such materials being brought onto their home holding by wildlife at lambing time (from infected flocks on neighbouring holdings.)

Alternatively, as you are ceasing to operate a closed flock, maybe your best option would be to commence vaccination against EAE in your own flock, then you can be confident that your own sheep are covered and cannot become infected, either by incoming sheep on tupping holidays or by infected materials from holdings neighbouring yours. (Which vaccination would also give the owners of the visiting sheep security that their ewes wouldn't be picking up the infection while on your holding.)

Your proposed charges sound eminently reasonable to me.