[thenovice]

Looking at my ladies in the field yesterday, got me to wondering, what would shepherds of old have used to treat sheep before the days of mineral buckets, pour ons and antibiotics? Are there tried and tested remedies that worked back then, and could be forgotten in a generation? Was it natural selection and survival of the fittest that bred tougher, healthier sheep? I would be interested to hear of anyones thoughts, memories or remedies they still use. 

[woollyval]

Formaldehyde for feet, arsenic for dipping and similar for worms.....
however the biggest thing old shepherds did was to be good at being shepherds....! They avoided parasite build up by extensive grazing, moving sheep from pasture to pasture, keeping their feet dry AND the traditional breeds in traditional places...Romney Marsh sheep are not resistant to foot rot for nothing!

I am afraid good management has often been replaced with poor management and an over reliance on chemical drugs that allow more sheep to be kept....

[princesspiggy]

i know people used to feed chicks on the maggots off a blown piece of meat. quite clever really.

[robert waddell]

surplus cockerels killed and  hung in the hen run  instant protein for the hens when they fall of

[VSS]

Formaldehyde for feet, arsenic for dipping and similar for worms.....
however the biggest thing old shepherds did was to be good at being shepherds....! They avoided parasite build up by extensive grazing, moving sheep from pasture to pasture, keeping their feet dry AND the traditional breeds in traditional places...Romney Marsh sheep are not resistant to foot rot for nothing!

I am afraid good management has often been replaced with poor management and an over reliance on chemical drugs that allow more sheep to be kept....

In those days labour was cheap so sheep could have someone with them virtually around the clock so any problems would be spotted before they became difficult to deal with.
Woolyval is right - they had their own range of chemicals, alot of them even more unpleasant than the ones we use today.
I think most farmers trying to make a living form their sheep manage their flocks pretty well. They have to if they are to make any profit at all.

[thenovice]

I think you have apoint Woolyval, money talks these days, the antibiotics pumped into animals, and the intensive rearing from europe prove that. They say there used to be 250,000 sheep on the south downs years ago and the shepherds used to fold them at night. Perhaps the good old days wernt as good as they used to be 

[woollyval]

VSS is correct...especially at the moment with such high prices anyone with any sense is looking after their sheep well....no profit to be gained from unthrifty sheep. Novice...the folding system was used in my home area too....across Dorset, Somerset and Wilts vast flocks were kept and Cobbett riding through 200 years ago talks of seeing flocks in their thousands. Labour was very cheap hence a shepherd in a shepherd hut always in attendance. Must have been lots of other help too.....moving all those sheep hurdles would have taken an army each night!

Lots of horrid chemicals and concocctions were used.....over the years I have heard stories that would make your hair stand on end.....

[SallyintNorth]

Lots of horrid chemicals and concocctions were used.....over the years I have heard stories that would make your hair stand on end.....

Well, now...  BH bemoans the banning of a paste he calls (something like, I'm not sure this is exactly it), 'butterburn'.  It was used for scald and footrot, you applied it with a feather directly and exactly to the badness on the foot.  The sheep would be very sore for a day or two and then be healed - and stay healed.

Now it is banned and we all use our blue sprays and footbaths.  One treatment is often not enough, the bugs continue to spread and reinfect throughout the flock.  Lots of handling for the sheep, overall more discomfort and pain and lack of thrift, and far more chemicals used and having to be discarded.  Collateral damage to fish and other aquatics from using the footbath (no matter how carefully.)

He has many many stories about noxious chemicals which now are banned, but where the use of it would be, as in this case, very controlled and exact - and would cure the problem. 

[feldar]

An old shepherd friend of ours used to hot iron remove tails in his sheep. The lambs were a lot older than we are used to doing now and he used to take them into his local doctors in a brown paper bag. The doctor stewed them down and had for his tea.!!!

[thenovice]

Talk about not wasting anything  I do wonder tho, that with the high price of lamb, and the availability of a wealth of drugs and chemicals, we are guilty of saving, and breeding from sickly and unsuitable ewes,  that years ago would have died or been eaten. thus perpetuating a weak strain of sheep that continue to pass on their troubles to their offspring. Sometimes there is something to be said for survival of the fittest, strong healthy sheep 

[SallyintNorth]

Talk about not wasting anything  I do wonder tho, that with the high price of lamb, and the availability of a wealth of drugs and chemicals, we are guilty of saving, and breeding from sickly and unsuitable ewes,  that years ago would have died or been eaten. thus perpetuating a weak strain of sheep that continue to pass on their troubles to their offspring. Sometimes there is something to be said for survival of the fittest, strong healthy sheep 

You may be right about small-scale sheep-keepers keeping on girls who owe their continued existence to the availability of treatments, I couldn't say.  Farmers generally will cull ewes who take a lot of keeping alive.  Prices for cull ewes are high too, and it's simply not good sense to keep such a one on.

[robert waddell]

that is the main difference betwean farmers and hobby sheep keepers (the same with any livestock)
a farmer will give every breeding female a chance  but when it comes to spending money to keep them going(beyond there worth) they are down the road just plain economics and sense a sound balance has to be made
a vets visit or even taking that sick hen or whatever to them may work with one but when you have hundreds it will bankrupt you 

[SallyintNorth]

Any animal that needs a vet will either get taken to or visited by the vet, or get the knackerman calling - it'll not be left to suffer.  So we still have the vet bills to pay in the first instance - but an older girl who's had problems this year will probably struggle next, so it's best for her and for us if she's away when she's fit.  Depending on the problems she's had, a younger animal may be given the benefit of the doubt and kept on.

With cattle especially these decisions are not taken lightly, but BH reckons for every 5 he's kept on against his better judgement, he's had 4 suffered the following year.  And watching a beast struggle doesn't make him feel like a good stockman, so that strengthens him for these difficult decisions.

Whichever road one takes, all such decisions are made with the best interests of the animal very firmly in mind, whether you are a farmer with hundreds of stock or a hobbyist with a handful. 

[feldar]

I agree we tend to give our ewes two chances then they are out. We will carry a shearling over who has lost a lamb because sometimes it is just plain bad luck she lost it, but ewes who loose lambs for a variety of reasons or who are prone to footrot or single quartered don't get a second chance. They cost a lot to carry through the winter and as you say cull ewe price is good.
Also we hardley ever keep orphans in our experience they just don't make good mothers