[Anke]

My 11 week old wether kid has again come down with a messy (green and now completely liquid) back end. he is eating hay/haylage and taking some water/electrolyte, is perky and chewing his cud. He has been doing this for two days now. It has probably been caused by overeating on some dairy nuts followed too quickly by some (pinched) grass from mum's pen.... It is not infectious (he is sharing his pen with his best mate, who has a clean bum), and probably not viral either.

My question is: My vet book mentions to add additional sodium bicarbonate to combat acidosis/severe diarrhoea - has anyone done this? (The electolyte I am making up has honey, sea salt and some bicarb in it - he hates it!) Would it do any harm by adding more? I am worried now that he will be running out of energy soon, should I introduce small amounts of milk (or dilute it)? Or would something like oats/oatcakes plus yoghurt be better? He is starving and going mad when the others get their bottles...

Are males more prone to tummy upsets?

[Hopewell]

It is possible to buy proprietry electrolyte mixes that take the guess work out of making your own. Some of them do contain bicarb to combat acidosis. The most important thing is to get fluids into him faster than they are leaving the other end. The type of fluid mix is usually less important than quantity. Yes bicarb tastes awful - so if putting more in means he takes less fluid then it becomes self defeating.

I wouldn't dilute milk that you give him. Milk needs to clot in the stomach for him to digest it properly and if you dilute it then it can't clot properly. It then passes into the intestines and that can easily make the diarrhoea worse.

I'd also be thinking that if he has had watery diarrhoea for 2 days that a trip to the vets is probably in order - certainly if he is still the same tomorrow morning.

[jaykay]

If he were mine, and I'm no expert (where is Wytsend?) I'd give him electrolyte (as you're making it, not with more bicarb in if that's going to stop him taking it) free access to hay (rather than haylage) and water and maybe feed small quantities of oats.

And get him to the vets in the morning. You can get 'rumen-start' from the feedstore - see what the vet thinks about this helping balance out his gut flora. Good luck, horrid when they get such violent symptoms.

[plumseverywhere]

Wytsends phone number 01647 231456 I'm sure she won't mind you calling for advice Anke.

I've only used the calf scour formulation from countrywide (with good effect though I have to say) never have kids that young here so wouldnt' like to comment but try calling wytsend.
hope he's ok xxx

[wytsend]

I'm here !!!!   Anke, please do phone this evening... as has been posted earlier the sooner this is stopped the better.

I would give 10-15ml of kaolin, with or without the morphine immediately,  absolutely no milk at this stage whatsoever.   Give water by bottle with some added glucose.. about 1 teaspoon per litre... for the next few 'feeds'.  Wuthin 24 hours he will have stopped scouring.   Don't weorry about acidosis at this stage.. it is unlikely to be the issue,  I lean towards overeating therefore the gut has got to be rested.  It can easily be restarted using yoghurt.... one small pot of live plain yoghurt syringed down the side of his mouth, he might even like it !!

Offer only very dry hay at this stage... no haylage, it is too rich for his gut.

But ring me anyway, am in all evening but going to bed early tonight.

[Anke]

Sorry only now got onto the web, I will try and get some Kaolin from the vets in the morning. Thing is, he is absolutely fine otherwise, only squirts vile green stuff out his backend! He is trying to eat his mate's bottle when I feed him, as it has milk in it!

Someone else also suggested Rehydion to me (calves scour formula stuff), so might try that as well. Still have got a teeny bit of hay left, so he will get it! See what the vet says (over the phone).

I don't think I will raise any males (for the freezer) next year - he has already cost me 50 quid for an earlier infection! And why do these things always happen on a weekend?!

Thanks everybody for their advice.

[ballingall]

You might be able to get Kaolin at the chemist Anke- that's where we get ours from. It sounds like he does need Kaolin to try and dry him up. If he is desperate for a bottle give him one- but put water and a bit of honey in it.

Haylage is rich for kids, but I know it is getting difficult to get hold of hay. You could try putting straw in the rack for them to eat- that will do no harm, and will be better than haylage.

I take it he has been dosed for worms and cocci? If he has, then the cause has been most likely just overeating. Though, that said, we have had to dose our kids twice this year for cocci.

Hope he improves.

Beth

[Roxy]

Kaolin will be cheaper at the chemist I think.  I do try and feed the kids hay, not haylage, although good hay is in short supply I know.  Or even mixing the haylage with some hay is better than giving all haylage to kids.  They do tend to overeat - eyes bigger than their bellies!!

Do hope the little fella feels better soon.

[wytsend]

Kaolin is very cheap at the chemist.... I usually pay around £2.50 for 100ml bottle.   Heaven knows what the Vet would charge !!!!!

Straw is just as good as hay, particularly oat straw.    I always keep a few bales of oat straw in reserve..... used to feed a welsh sec A on it instead of hay to prevent her getting overweight... and still buy in a few bales every year.

[Anke]

Thanks re kaolin - I have never used it before, even on humans.... I try the local chemist instead (shows what a sheltered life I live!).

The kids haven't beend dosed, but also have not been out very much, my field seems to have had its annual June nematode invasion early this summer, so all inside/walked at the moment. Adults dosed. They get grass from non-grazed field though and branches (that's how little billyboy got this - nicking grass from mum's pen.)