[P6te]

 Following on from my previous post (re http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=23757.0) our sow is NOT pregnant (that’s another story and something we are going to peruse).  However, whilst we resolve that we now have a run taken up and I'm looking to move pigs around.
 I am proposing to put Elsie (the not pregnant sow) who is 3 years old in a run with Shallot (11 month Gilt) - both are OSB's. They have been in adjacent runs separated by pig netting for 3 weeks. The question is, should we be ok to put them together or will they fight?
 Many thanks
 Pete
 

[JulieS]

Sorry to hear about Elsie.


You should be fine to put them together.  They will probably have a bit of an 'off', but will soon settle down.


Good luck, let us know how you get on.

[P6te]

Thank you Julie,
I was hoping and expecting that answer. 
We are not at all happy with the people we purchased Elsie off, they are ignoring phone calls probably thinking it will 'go away' - but it won't! (they are not on TAS to my knowledge).
Pete

[dixie]

If you can put them together on neutral ground rather than one into the pen with the other.  They will fight, it can be really nasty so be prepared, you can't and shouldn't try to stop them! If it doesn't settle after an hour or so or ones left out of the arc, let us know and I'll share some tips, you could throw a bucket of soapy water over each one just before they meet, if they smell the same it can help, good luck hopefully they'll be fine though.

[P6te]

Thank you for the advise ...
Unfortunately I don't have any neutral ground available.
I'll give them a few more days and put then together when I'll have more time to observe .. and probably mid morning (after morning feed and well before evening feed) - unless advised otherwise!
Pete

[Berkshire Boy]

Hi Pete,
I usually move my pigs at feeding time. Feed in seperate trogs away from each other and it gives them something else to think about I very rarely get any fighting when swapping pens around.Good luck.

[robert waddell]

miss out the previous feed then feed together  there will be a skirmish but will settle down with them being adjacent to each other they may well be alright
not much you can do with the seller unless you have a written receipt

[deepinthewoods]

not yet a pig keeper, but its good to have read how you have managed looking after this pig, so shes not pregnant, but she will be next time im sure, just wanted to say well done on a good example of  pig keeper-ing.

[P6te]

As always, THANK YOU ALL for your replies. I'll let you know how we get on, probably towards the end of the week.
Regarding the 'not pregnant sow', we have the pedigree paperwork for her with the sellers details and we have their advertisement advertising 'Pregnant Pedigree Oxford Sand and Black Sow ...' with their name clearly displayed and we have emails from the owner or of the boar she was with in January so with any luck we have a strong case. Time will tell .... and I'll let you know once resolved. If not resolved amicably in the next couple of days we will get a vets report such that we can prove not only that she isn't pregnant but also that she wasn't pregnant and we'll go through the small claims court.
Any advice on any aspect always welcome ...
Pete

[robert waddell]

good luck with your claim you will need it
if pigs are ill they can reabsorb the foetus  your pig was ill after you bought it    a very difficult one to determine

[dixie]

I agree move them at feeding time, also if one is more dominant than the other put her in with the less dominant, so it's not her territory.  When was the sow due to farrow? Are you sure she's not Inpig? If so how? She may have not taken til 3 weeks later? You don't want to be mixing her with another if there's still a chance of piglets. Does she lie for a belly rub? It's a good time to check for piglets.

[HappyHippy]

I agree with Robert - sometimes, pigs just abort and reabsorb. There's nothing to say she wasn't pregnant and something's happened. Our Berkshire was served by a (fully operational) Large Black boar, missed 2 seasons and bang, had a season 9 weeks post service    She hadn't been ill, moved, stressed etc - so sometimes it can happen (nothing's certain with livestock  )
 
If you're CERTAIN she's not in-pig, I'd mix them at the evening feed (less time to fight you see  ) and give them both a spray of something strong smelling (body spray or TCP are my usual choices) the theory behind this is they'll both smell the same and be more likely to accept the other. You HAVE to give them plenty of space though, because the loser needs flight space - if she feels trapped, she'll keep fighting back or the other will persue her because she's not able to back off to a reasonable distance and it could get quite nasty 
 
HTH
Karen 

[Berkshire Boy]

What makes you certain she is not in pig. I would leave her for another 3 weeks atleast to see if she produces. You will learn that just because the boar was seen serving her it could have been her next season before he caught her but no one saw the deed being done.

[Tudful Tamworths]

Good luck mixing your sows. As others have said, give as much space as possible (better to give neutral ground, but I understand that's not possible). I'd try and mix at late afternoon/evening feeding (whichever you do), so that darkness comes soon and hopefully calms the situation.
 
Plenty of food, widely spread, when you mix them. Inevitably, the newcomer will spend the evening outdoors, but they should be sorted by the next day - but still expect squabbling over food and spread widely to ensure both get their fair share.
 
One word of warning that you might not want to hear: I had my best sow (newly-weaned) killed by a heart attack brought on by an over-aggressive sow (later found she had polycystic ovaries). I used to accept initial sow squabbles as something that just happened, but would blow over. Now I stay with the sows until I'm absolutely sure they are settled. Good luck, Liz
 

[P6te]

Hi .... back on line ....
The information we were given was that Elsie was with the boar from Jan 12th till Feb 3rd and the deed was seen to have been done on Jan 27th.
The reason we do not think she is pregnant (other than the fact that she is a week late now) is that last weekend (when we believed due date was imminent) we observed her nether region more relaxed / swollen & pink than normal and we thought that was an indication that she was about to farrow (remember Elsie would have been the first pig we had farrowing) and at the same time a 20 week old OSB boar in the adjacent run was extremely 'interested' in her - and she in him!
Since then she has returned to 'normal' and we are now convinced that she was in season.  Furthermore a friend who has a lifetime of farming knowledge / experience has looked at her and does not consider she looks pregnant. Their is absolutely no indication of her udder remotely looking as if milk is being produced and she does not 'look' pregnant.
Tomorrow I will take some photographs of her and post them for you all to see ....
Pete