[Q]

Hi - I recently put some of my own eggs through the incubator(its a Covatutto 16 if that helps).

I put 12 eggs in, 6 were infertile, 3 hatched and three were Dead in the shell.

Its the dead in shell ones I am interested in - they were fully formed and just hadnt broken through the membrane - what would have most likely caused that? 

It cant really be the incubator because of the ones that hatched.

Its a real shame because the ones that died were all pure buff orpingtons and the three that hatched were pure light sussex.
The infertile ones were also buff orpingtons.

Any one have previous experience with the problem so that I can at least correct things.

[mintytwoshoes]

So sorry to hear about the hatch - I will get back to you when I have pondered a bit.  Hatching can be so up or down.  Last year blessed to get three out of six.  I keep dumpies which can die in the shell due to genetic makeup.  This year much better results.  How did you turn them?

[Q]

Hi Minty - I was thinking genetic too but wouldnt like that to be the answer, 
We have such a problem with the buffs in the past being infertile (hence the infertile number with this hatch) so double annoying to lose the three of them.   
On the plus side at least we know the cockerel has some 'lead'.
We were turning them by hand rigorously twice per day up to day 18.

[HesterF]

Interestingly I've just had a problem with a hatch - separate thread - and had three different colours of Orps. I had six each of buff, blue/splash and lavender. I've hatched three blue/splash, two lavender but no buffs (and at least three were lost early on). Not a great hatch anyway but the buffs were the worst so I wonder whether there is less of the fighter in them!

H

[Q]

Intereseting - i wonder if it is a time when intervention may have helped.   My normal view is that if they are not strong enough to get out of the egg then they wouldnt survive anyway but it did make me think that if i had known they were full term I might at least have tried intervention.

[darkbrowneggs]

Was it a bit wet under the membrane where the beak was?  Assuming the head was out from under the wing and ready to pip internally.

[Marches Farmer]

I tend to ignore accepted wisdom not to intervene and inspect at hourly intervals once the first egg has pipped (during the day, anyway!)  If nothing's happened to a pipped one after an hour or so I help out the chick. These always seem to do perfectly well. After 24 hours from the first one hatched I shake all the unhatched ones very gently next to my ear and if anything cheeps at me I break it out. Often it's too exhausted to live but occasionally I save one and these, too, seem to do as well as the rest.   I no longer follow incubator instructions to add water before hatching - Sue Hammond of The Wernlas Collection told me many years ago that our climate has quite enough humidity in the atmosphere if the incubator is in a cool room, and water just made the chicks grow too big to peck their way out.

I do suspect that Buffs have been bred for size and feathering over recent years and fertility and robustness have slipped down the ladder as a result.  I only breed from good layers that have survived a winter on our hilltop, whatever the breed, but then I don't show my birds.

[HesterF]

I've intervened with a lot but I wait until they pip externally first. Then at least I know where their beak is. I've helped the last two chicks out today - don't know whether I needed to or whether they'll make it but they're OK at the moment. Just once you start to enlarge the chip hole, I reckon you're on a slippery slope because then the membranes can dry more so then you worry they can't turn properly so you have to just take a section more a while later and before you know it, you've got them out! I had ducklings hatch four weeks ago and I helped every one that externally pipped out and all twelve are happy, healthy, huge ducklings now. I lost one Aylesbury after hatch but I think that was because I moved him across to the brooder too early. Some others did fail to hatch but I don't think there was much I could have done - particularly if they haven't pipped internally I wouldn't intervene.

H

[Q]

Was it a bit wet under the membrane where the beak was?  Assuming the head was out from under the wing and ready to pip internally.

sorry DBE I didnt really look that close - what would that signify - too much humidity?

[chrismahon]

We have a Covatuttu -solid made semi-automatic with water trays. There are three problems here Q and we've had all of them. If the humidity is too high initially (first 18 days) the air sac won't form so the chick has no room to manoeuvre and just fills the egg. If the eggs were not stored properly (upside down) you can get a double air sac or an air sac at the pointed end which the chick can't break through. If the humidity is too low during the last 3 days the chick will stick to the membrane after pipping. Sounds to me as though the first is your problem Q as sometimes, depending on the external conditions, you don't need water in the trays.

[Q]

Chris - many thanks for your reply, the humidity thing is very interesting - maybe i will try the first 18 days without water because the chicks were absolutely jammed solid in the egg - it may be there wasnt enough room where the sac should have been.  Sadly I didnt candle these ones because then I would have been able to tell.

The other eggs seemed to be ok with live chicks - its just these buffs.