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Buildings & planning / Re: If a barn stays a barn - do I need planning to do stuff inside it (gym!)

« Last post by Fleecewife on May 30, 2024, 11:48:57 pm »

There's currently a boat in our barn and nobody has yet told me I need to apply for a change of use.

I think there are a lot of boats in barns around the countryside!  lol.  When I arrived at Trelay, we stored my fleece stash in one of the boats stored in our big barn...   

Beware!  I stored a fleece stash inside a Landrover many years ago.  When I came to check it, the rats had moved in and destroyed the interior of the vehicle as well as ruining the fleeces.

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Sheep / Re: Topping up lambs

« Last post by SallyintNorth on May 30, 2024, 10:13:45 pm »

I'm quite surprised actually.  Usually after they've been topped up for a couple of days indoors while Mum got sorted, they're running to you shouting (whether they see the bottle or not  ), and that transfers to the field without problem, especially if you teach them a "bottle's here" call. 

We sometimes use a pen-within-a-pen setup for wary mums with littles that need something doing.  Big outer  pen, smaller pen (eg just a hurdle across the corner) well inside, where the lambs can be held while getting sorted.  Bucket of something nice, or a scatter of something nice, for the ewe. Get them all in the big pen, then while mum is eating take a lamb into the small pen, sort it, swap for 2nd lamb, sort that, bit more treats for mum, put 'em all out.  Do not catch or handle the ewe, so she builds confidence that she won't be messed with, it's all about getting a feed.  Try to not have lambs screaming for mum, and if they need catching, try to do it swiftly and quietly so there isn't a lot of panic and adrenaline for the ewe to avoid repeating.  (Eg., use your body and your crook to quietly steer the lambs behind the hurdle, then swing it shut, rather than chasing them about the larger pen trying to catch them round the neck with your crook, or by the leg.)

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Sheep / Re: Topping up lambs

« Last post by Richmond on May 30, 2024, 01:55:00 pm »

Thanks Sally. I don't think they are in danger of over-filling. More that they are not having enough although they're clearly not starving as they have plenty of energy and are behaving as little lambs should, with lots of running/leaping around. I shall certainly try the "sitting and waiting for them to approach" trick. They obviously take their cue from mum and at the moment she is very wary.

Typically the lambs in the other field who've never seen a bottle in their life will come to our call for a cuddle and fuss, no food incentive needed. I guess that's sheep eh?

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Sheep / Re: Topping up lambs

« Last post by SallyintNorth on May 30, 2024, 12:22:23 pm »

Glad to hear the ewe is improving in herself, that will help the milk supply.

When topping up a sibling group, I tend to think in terms of how much milk I need to put in to leave the mother a manageable amount of work, rather than worrying about do I give all lambs an equal top-up. So for instance, if it's triplets I'd like them to be getting 3L a day between them, a healthy ewe with a healthy udder on good grass should have no trouble producing 2L, so I'd like to get a litre into the lambs between them.  Quite often, one of the triplets doesn't take to the bottle, so the other two get the bottles between them, and the third only drinks from mum.  Frequently it ends up with one lamb apparently getting most of its feed from the bottle, and the middle lamb drinking a bit now and again, but not always taking any.

Your ewe may well be able to produce enough for two in her one good quarter once she's fully fit again, and if she's over the infection now you can probably assume she's producing at least enough for one already.  So I'd be looking to see if the lambs will take a litre a day between them, and only worry if it's less if either lamb starts to look actually skinny. 

Never over-fill a lamb, they don't know when to stop and it's incredibly dangerous to have the milk overflow into the rumen, but apart from that, I'd feed Fatty what he'll take and just give some to Skinny if you can.  Personally I would keep having a go at catching Skinny and feeding him for the moment, they sometimes get keener on the bottle later on as they need more. 

As Fatty is coming to you now, I'd feed him first; you might find that the sibling bond, curiosity and lack of pressure will bring Skinny closer and give you an opportunity to catch them both in the pen while you feed Fatty.

(To not overfill a lamb, I look down on the lamb as it stands feeding, and watch the flanks behind the ribs.  As soon as it starts to be convex there, I stop.  I'd rather underfeed at a feed than give too much, there'll be another feed later, and they'll get some from Mum in between times too.  If necessary to give enough overall, I'd increase the number of feeds rather than risk overfilling.)

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Sheep / Re: Topping up lambs

« Last post by Richmond on May 30, 2024, 08:43:45 am »

So, we have started top ups in the field. Not easy. The ewe is very wary of us from being caught up for injections, udder stripping etc and will no longer come into the hurdle pen which is making it hard to get hold of the lambs. Fortunately the ewe seems a lot better. The "bad" side of the udder has shrunk considerably and we can't get any more milk from it. The lambs are still competing for the "good" side and seem to be getting equal turns at it - I have been watching. The lambs are distinctively marked and easy to tell apart even from a distance. We are calling them Skinny and Fatty, although there's not much between them. Skinny is quite tricky to catch. Fatty on the other hand will approach us and this morning decided to help herself to her bottle (of course tipping it over) while I was trying to catch Skinny.  Just wondering what other people do? I'm guessing with "normal" bottle feeding the human is the only source of food so lambs come readily but it's tricky when they are running round a field with their mum.

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Sheep / Re: Anyone else frustrated and concerned with persistant scald / footrot ?

« Last post by twizzel on May 29, 2024, 10:22:17 am »

Interestingly I’ve lambs sired by 2 rams- the pedigree Lleyn lambs are much better on their feet than the lambs sired by the Charolais x Texel ram. The ram himself is good on his feet but wondering whether the lambs’ skin is a bit softer/thinner or something. Either way they’re all destined for slaughter and they're growing well.

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Sheep / Re: Anyone else frustrated and concerned with persistant scald / footrot ?

« Last post by SallyintNorth on May 29, 2024, 09:12:05 am »

For any persistent / intractable scald, especially in the current wet/muddy conditions, we use Stockholm tar.  Clean the foot thoroughly, apply the blue spray and let it dry, then apply the tar and let it dry.  It seems to keep the foot clean and dry long enough for healing to occur.

Otherwise, giving the sheep some hard core to walk over / loaf on, and (unless it's going to get washed away within minutes), spread lime on well-used tracks, in gateways, around water troughs, etc. 

And longer term...  Start to keep track of which sheep and which ewe's lambs rarely hobble, which seem to shake it off within a day or two without treatment, which are needing treatment again and again. Keep ewe lambs from the former, stop breeding from the latter.  It makes an enormous difference over time. 

Rotational grazing helps too, with feet as well as worms.  We graze cattle, then sheep then ponies, then rest to regrow to a length which suits cattle, repeat.  If that's not an option for you, try to have the ewes lamb onto cleanish ground and move onto clean ground once all lambed.  (The ground being cleaned by haymaking the previous year if you don't have any other grazing species.)  And think about giving pasture a few months empty after a group of sheep with foot issues have been using it.

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Buildings & planning / Re: If a barn stays a barn - do I need planning to do stuff inside it (gym!)

« Last post by SallyintNorth on May 29, 2024, 08:58:33 am »

There's currently a boat in our barn and nobody has yet told me I need to apply for a change of use.

I think there are a lot of boats in barns around the countryside!  lol.  When I arrived at Trelay, we stored my fleece stash in one of the boats stored in our big barn...   

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Sheep / Re: Anyone else frustrated and concerned with persistant scald / footrot ?

« Last post by Bishybarneybee on May 29, 2024, 08:30:04 am »

I know exactly what you mean. It feels like a never ending battle at the moment. Mostly limping lambs but a few mums too.

The constant rain and high water table keep the ground wet or waterlogged and the longer grass contributes to the scald. The fact that the sheep tend to follow the same paths in the fields means it doesn't take long to poach the ground, compounding the problem.

Currently using blue spray from the vet (Alamycin) which does help sort the infection. It works quicker when there's a dry day but may need more than one application when it's very wet.

I bring the worst cases (more than one foot affected) back to the lambing barn and pen up mum and lambs on dry straw for 24 hours, to give the spray a better chance to work.

My biggest problem is catching up the little beggars. They are getting faster as they get bigger, even with a limp!

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Introduce yourself / Re: Help, I want to buy a farm but need advice

« Last post by Dan_smiff on May 28, 2024, 11:04:43 pm »

Thanks everyone for your advice. See if I can give any extra details. So me and and brother are 38 and 41, wives similar. My brother is a carpenter and currently works for a firm that buys and installs bespoke oak timber frame buildings. The business he works for is changing suppliers and he’s been approached to set up a saw mill to produce these frames and then supply other firms in the south. Mushrooms are my thing, I already grow lions mane and oyster (pink, gold and grey) successfully as a keen amateur, I currently grow a regular weekly supply for myself and family/friends while having enough to supply 2 local grocers. So plan to upscale my current setup so I’m able to supply many more farm shops/stalls as well as restaurants and also dehydrate the lions mane and sell as a supplement. My brothers projections for his oak frame business almost covers our combined current wage. My wife is a health and safety director and works from home, she quite likes her job but likes the idea of doing it with a farm view. My brothers in laws (£300k investment) are also buying a holiday home on the Isle of Wight and plan to live there 9 months of the year and on the farm for 2-3 (depending on foreign stays) they originally wanted it to be a payment on a house that they had an annex on but would give my bro and his wife a forever home. Our in laws are in a similar position, they spend a large chunk of the year in Spain but want home stead here so were going to give us a deposit (£200k) to buy a house so they could live in an annex in the garden. They are very keen gardeners and are very excited about the prospect of growing plants and veg to sell at markets and nurseries. But both sets of parents have jumped at the farm idea, an idea me and my brother have had for many years with some differings on uses over the years. My brother and his family have holidayed (mostly camping) for all our lives. We have a plan in place that everyone’s agreed to with regards to wanting out of the setup. Both sets of parents are in 60s. Obviously we many ideas of how to carefully diversify any land we are lucky to get but there are core ideas that should get us up and running pretty quickly but incomes to fall back on. Also good shout on the land size. Both sets of parents are happy with a modest plot and obviously my in laws are keen to have some working land. Finding the right plot is going to take some doing but feels very exciting. Thanks again for any advice.