Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

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11
If this is a home gym for your own use (i.e. you're not selling memberships), I'd just get on with it.

There's currently a boat in our barn and nobody has yet told me I need to apply for a change of use.
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When we have wanted to do anything which just might possibly interest the planners, then we have phoned them to ask.  Twice this has led to a visit from a very pleasant planning officer and a positive outcome.  In fact on the second visit we were asked 'is there anything else you want to do while I'm here?'  All very friendly and helpful.  We have a neighbour who tries various ways to make life difficult for us, so in our case it's best to be on the safe side.
For buying a house, I would check carefully the precise wording and classification of any outbuilding before assuming you would get away with using it as a gym.  After all, you won't know your neighbours until you move in!
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Introduce yourself / Re: Help, I want to buy a farm but need advice
« Last post by Fleecewife on May 27, 2024, 11:45:18 pm »
I would reiterate Rosemary's point about doing some very precise and detailed sums, not just for the initial purchase but also for any possible income from the ideas you have.  You haven't mentioned ages, but that makes a big difference to how long you and your brother and your spouses could go on in paid employment and whether or not you would be adding children into the mixture.
I am personally very nervous about any financial involvement with family (with good reason as it turned out).  Here is where Sally's experience of living with a group is vital, so do please listen to her.
For your sums, you must take into account what would happen if, perhaps your brother and his wife decided to pull out of the arrangement after five years.  What would happen if one of you divorced, not just on a financial level, but for the apportioning of chores and so on, especially if that was vital for the economy.
You must also consider that running a farm is a large amount of work and with all of you working full time it would often happen that when you get home from work you are just too tired for farm stuff.  It still all has to be done though, so it might end up all landing on your respective parents,  When you are tired and jobs become a drag, then any enjoyment of what you are doing flies out the window.  A lot of successful communities have a religious basis, but you would have to be a very strong family to get through the trials without something like that, without ending up arguing.
When you mention what you intend to do with the farm, I don't see anything that would provide an actual income for when you decide to stop working.  There is no core farming industry, just supplements. 
Also 20 acres between 8 people is a very tiny holding, two and a half acres each in effect.


My suggestion is that before you commit to a particular property, that you and your family really talk through the idea.  Go on holiday for a couple of weeks together and really pick apart your plan, explore the what ifs and maybes, be totally realistic.  For this to work, everyone needs to be onboard from the start.
Please keep us in the loop with what you do finally, and good luck.
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Announcements / New diary post: Tatties / Pasture Pen / Dead calf
« Last post by TAS Bot on May 27, 2024, 07:38:37 pm »
A new TAS diary entry has been posted: Tatties / Pasture Pen / Dead calf
15
Introduce yourself / Re: Help, I want to buy a farm but need advice
« Last post by Rosemary on May 27, 2024, 09:58:29 am »
Thanks, Sally. We bought a property and lived with Dan's folks. It worked out fine but there were some hairy moments that we could have managed better.
16
Introduce yourself / Re: Help, I want to buy a farm but need advice
« Last post by SallyintNorth on May 26, 2024, 03:38:57 pm »

And have some method of dispute resolution. Thats' a lot of folk involved. I hope Sally comes on; she lives in a communal facility and will have good advice on that.

Well, I'm not sure how useful Trelay's approach might be when it's basically all family members, that brings all kinds of other dimensions, history, expectations, ... lol.

But for what it's worth, we have settled on aiming to use "mindful communication" (heavily based on Marshall Rosenberg's Non-Violent Communication), not just when there's a dispute but all the time, and always seeking to communicate well enough with each other to understand each others' needs, and look together for an outcome where everyone's needs are met. 

"Needs" being the basic human needs, which give rise to our feelings.  Needs are things like beauty, autonomy, peace, connection.  (Not things like "that field for my mushrooms", or, "I can park my car in that spot", lol.)  All humans share the same basic needs, so working at that level keeps the mutual understanding high - and the attachment to specific outcomes in abeyance.

Our strapline is "Creating a quality of connection with ourselves, each other, and our land, where everybody's needs matter". 

Some nuggets which I find help me :

"All human action is an attempt to meet a need.  The deeper the need, the uglier the expression." 

(And when you're on the receiving end of an ugly expression... "That's a tragic expression of an unmet need".  When I'm with my mother, or latterly also my sister, sometimes I am intoning that constantly under my breath....  It's really helped!  lol)

"If you're taking sides, you are part of the problem"

"If you come into the session with a specific desired outcome, you're not doing NVC".

"Don't give in, nor seek surrender.  If anyone felt like that, you'll all pay later."  (Resentments always come back to bite you - and usually bite everyone.) 

There are other communities which use NVC or similar, but many others have more or less proscribed processes, with roles, escalations, sometimes warnings and/or other consequences.  We have found none of that helpful.  Our handling of disputes is to support those in disagreement with each other to hear each other speak about what happened (factual and observed, not interpolated, not hearsay), how they themselves felt (first person only, no guessing or reporting what others may have felt), and their needs which were not met. 

Understanding generally emerges, and with it connection.  Resolution often follows - but it doesn't always.  Sometimes personal antipathies are intractable, and eventually one or other party may disengage from the supported communication, and that, more often than not, eventually ends up with them deciding to leave the community.  And that does happen, but not nearly as often as things get resolved, and people develop stronger connections through navigating these problems, which make each disagreement generally easier and quicker to resolve.

Can 4 family groups do it that way?  If everyone buys into the approach, sure!   If not, with all the history that comes with family.. gulp! 
   

I can certainly point you at some resources if you're interested.


However you decide to do communication and handle disputes, it's always a good idea to have the basics really clearly agreed and documented, preferably signed by all.  Basis of ownership, how someone would leave, rights and responsibilities, that sort of thing.  And agree how decisions will get made - majority vote, or consensus?  One person one vote or votes apportioned pro rata investment?  Capital vs income (eg., one family may inject capital up front but not have a great deal of spare income to cover expenditures, another family may have little capital at the outset but a good job and can pay down a mortgage, and some may contribute "sweat equity", non-financial input which nonetheless adds value.)
17
Buildings & planning / Re: A new track
« Last post by Bywaters on May 26, 2024, 10:38:38 am »
My recently constructed track as two trenches,  terram lining and filled with crusher run / recycled inert construction waste. Plenty strong enought for vehicles and a nice green centre so it doesn't look out of place
I didn't trouble my local planning department, as I thought they would be too busy  ;D

Possibly over engineered, but it works
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Don't forget, planning development rules are said to have been relaxed, very recently

I don't know the details but worth a look
19
Sheep / Re: Topping up lambs
« Last post by Bywaters on May 26, 2024, 10:33:30 am »
If the one side is engorged, it will need stripping off (ie hand milking until not engorged) otherwise bacteria will build up and you will be in the same boat

Not asey on your onw, but maybe make a halter and tie her up while you milk her
20
Sheep / Re: Topping up lambs
« Last post by Richmond on May 26, 2024, 08:35:51 am »
Once again, thanks for the advice. Very grateful to this forum for helping me in areas where I lack knowledge/experience.

The lambs still look hungry this morning even though the ewe is allowing them to suckle both sides. They just seem to be giving up easily on the engorged side. After a quick suck with what looks like no result they then run round to the other teat where they spend longer. I think I will start on top ups later today just to ensure they are getting a bit more. They are bouncing about well enough but just look skinny.

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