[Mickey]

I'm going to look at some houses with land and am looking for advice as to what I need to know about the land. The idea is to just have a few animals for fun really so the land will mostly be used for keeping said animals on, not exactly sure what animals as yet but the boss insists on a a couple of pigs so we'll go from there.  The places we have been considering range from 2 acres up to 50 or so, I'm not sure we need much more than a couple of acres but if the land is there we will buy it as no doubt we will need more than we may think.

So, when we go visiting places next week onwards, are there any considerations or questions I need to have for the land?

Thanks for any advice,
Mickey

[HesterF]

Wow! That's quite a big range - 50 acres is a serious amount of land so you'd need a plan for what to do with all of that.We were looking for somewhere with about an acre of land last year when we were house hunting and ended up buying a house with 8 1/2 acres. Not quite sure how that happened. We were very much at the domestic end so we didn't even get into agricultural questions about SPS payments/entitlements but for 50 acres you should ask about such things (I tried reading up about it but my head started spinning and I couldn't even contemplate going through the paperwork). Then I guess you'd just want to see the land, understand how it's used now and how easy it will be to manage so that you can plan what you'd do with it. Also just check whether there are any limitations on what you can do with the land and ease of things like planning permission. We're in a conservation area and an area of outstanding natural beauty plus being listed with listed outbuildings. We have to get permission for taking trees out as well as making changes to any of the buildings (let alone putting new ones in although they've not had a problem with the poultry housing).

It's fun though - I love having enough land to be able to plan and put in a big poultry run, bee hives, veg garden, flower gardens, 50 fruit trees and plans for an acre of vines without really having to worry about how it'll all fit in. Our plans still change on a daily basis - although they might have to settle down soon, our new walnut tree has had enough of being moved and wants to get its roots down!

Good luck,

H

[Tudful Tamworths]

Hello Mickey. Having bought a smallholding completely by accident (honestly!) and without even viewing any other properties, I learned through bitter experience what I should have looked out for when viewing!
It's a massive minefield - much more complicated than buying just a house - and I've written about it in detail in the Haynes Smallholding Manual. I've also included examples, with diagrams, of what you can reasonably accommodate on different acreages. Cheap on Amazon (I don't get any commission from them!).
Good luck with your search. Don't forget to take a camera and notebook! PM me with any questions.
Liz
 

[ballingall]

I would add from my own experience- find out what type of soil there is, is it a wet area. Will your fields become waterlogged? What animals or crops etc does well there at moment? Neighbours- even just the people who own neighbouring fields are important to know, or know what they do etc.


Beth

[Sbom]

Also note how stock proof the fencing is. Having to re fence 50 acres would be very costly. If its an exposed area then good hedges for shelter would be an advantage. Water troughs in all fields also a big plus. An as someone else pointed out, the type of soil and how well it drains, if there's a water course going through the land then does it flood? If so it could mean that some or all of the land can't be used in the winter months. Camera and notepad is a great idea 

[HesterF]

At the risk of sounding sycophantic, Liz's book is brilliant. I got it after we'd ended up with the land and it was great (and continues to be) as an overview of how we could go about things and giving us tasters of stuff so we could decide what to look into in more detail. There is a big section on what to think about when buying and questions to ask so it's well worth getting. I've also got the Haynes Poultry book and the Bee book and both those are great too - photos are very helpful (particularly for the bees where many books rely on descriptions and sketches).

H

[Tudful Tamworths]

Thanks v much, HesterF. Really glad you found it useful. If you feel so inclined, you could drop a comment on the Amazon page    (I don't get any financial kick-back, but comments help people decide whether they want to buy or not).
As I said earlier, feel free to contact me if you have any queries. You can't cover absolutely everything in 70k words, and every person's situation is different.
All the best,
Liz

[Mickey]

Thanks everyone, tomorrow we have our first visit to a couple of smallholdings, never been to see one before so your ideas are really helpful.  I have noted the Haynes manual down for a purchase and somewhere else on the forum I got some replies as to fence costs etc.  One place is 2.5 acres whilst the other is 55 acres, ideally I think we'd like about 6 to 8 although 2.5 would be a nice start.

I've made a note of everything suggested and have packed a camera and notepad for the long trip to Scotland :-)
Thanks,
Mickey

[spandit]

If you end up with the 55 acres you can always rent out what you don't use - nice to have even if it's just growing rough... Look forward to the outcome!

[scarlettoara]

avoid close neighbours, and shared roads - nothing but trouble! 
buying land without entitlements means you will run at a loss. run it as a business then you can offset your losses against your other income 
dont waste money on contractors cos most will think you are rich and rip you off. buy the tools and learn how to do things yourself. fencing isnt difficult when you know how.
buy a tractor and a trailer - makes life so much easier. even an old one.
try and repair the land before you get too much livestock or you'l run out of time with all the daily feeding etc.

enjoy the experience 

[StephB]

Hi

We bought a house with 6.5 acres two years ago, and the main thing we did'nt realise, is you can't have a regular mortgage with land over two acres, I guess it becomes a commercial loan/mortgage then.
Thankfully we had a large enough deposit that we could split the deeds and we bought the 5 acre field with cash and then just told the mortgage company that it was a house with 1.5 acres.  Just another stupid hurdle when dealing with mortgage companies.

If you are looking at large amounts of land, that you won't immediately be able to manage, knock on the door of some of the neighbouring farmers and ask them if they would be interested in renting/managing your potential extra acres until you are ready to use them.  Most farmers round here would grab the chance of extra neighbouring land going spare.

We have a great set up with our next door farmer.  We haven't really expanded into our 5 acres field much, so he manages it for us and takes the grass, pays us for it, and also cuts our hedges etc.  Its fab to see the field managed and gettting paid for it also.

We want to be a self sufficient as possible and think 6.5 acres is a perfect amount for that purpose.  Enough room for a little bit of everything.  Must more than this then I think you might be looking at a commercial set up where you will be trying to make a profit from the land.  That might be perfect for you, but we did'nt want the stress of that.

Best of luck, its so exciting smallholding hunting.

xx

[Small Plot Big Ideas]

We bought a house with 6.5 acres two years ago, and the main thing we did'nt realise, is you can't have a regular mortgage with land over two acres,

that is a new one to me... I've not been told that by Santander during my "mortgage interview" with them so I hope they don't suddenly introduce it later and scupper my deal! 


perhaps that was just related to buying the place and running it as a commercial business?

[Fleecewife]

Hi


If you are looking at large amounts of land, that you won't immediately be able to manage, knock on the door of some of the neighbouring farmers and ask them if they would be interested in renting/managing your potential extra acres until you are ready to use them.  Most farmers round here would grab the chance of extra neighbouring land going spare.

We have a great set up with our next door farmer.  We haven't really expanded into our 5 acres field much, so he manages it for us and takes the grass, pays us for it, and also cuts our hedges etc.  Its fab to see the field managed and gettting paid for it also.

I realise it's probably just a figure of speech, but I would be very careful about asking just anyone around if they want to rent your land.  Do a bit of research first into how good a farmer each one is - his work is laid out for you to see, so you will soon work out who is reliable and conscientious and who is just a chancer.  Then get a properly set up rental agreement - a bit like a pre-nup, as insurance for the future when you fall out with them     Yes, I am a cynic 
 
There's no rush to rent out and you will need the first year to get to know your land through the seasons.
 
I agree with scarlettoara that you should plan to do the work yourselves - you will be amazed at how quickly you can learn to do the jobs really quite well.   Getting someone else to do your work for you means an instant label of 'rich hobby farmer' whereas if you are standing on your own feet, but willing to take the free advice you will certainly get, then your label will slowly change from 'newcomer, hasn't got a clue' to 'he's always willing to give it a go, and he's improving every year'.  Respect comes with the second option 
 
Our smallholding was 6.5 acres when we bought it and we have since added in a bit more to bring it up to 9. Now we have become a bit decrepit we are happy with that, although at one point we wanted more (it's easy to sell land but difficult to buy it). The size you can manage depends on so many factors, including your own experience, your age, if you will be doing the hard work on your own or have a team of family members to help, the quality of the land and the local climate, whether you have a full-time job elsewhere, your business plan (it's worth having one, as a baseline, although it will be greatly modified as you go along), if you can afford a full range of machinery to do the heaviest work, to name but a few.

[luckylady]

Do your research on hunting/shooting/fishing rights too.  Also check for public footpaths/bridleways etc. Some of those who have rights on/through your land are not always as respectful as they could be.

[Tala Orchard]

Questions that you need to ask and maybe ask be fore you engage a solicitor here is an excerpt fromthe Agricultural Precedents

Dwellings
1.   Are there any dwellings on the Property?
   If so, please specify which are sold with vacant possession
2.   In respect of any part not to be sold with vacant possession, please:-
2.1   supply copies of any tenancy agreements and other relevant documents
2.2   supply a plan of the area occupied, unless this is self-evident on the ground
3.   Insofar as they are not shown by any copy document supplied please:-
3.1   supply full details of any rights enjoyed or suffered by the dwelling
3.2   specify the commencement date of the current occupation
3.3   specify the period of the letting
3.4   specify the respective repairing and other obligations undertaken by the owner and the occupier
3.5   state who is responsible for emptying any septic tank
3.6   give full details of any specific insurance
4.   In relation to the rent or any other payment by the occupier:-
4.1   how much is it?
4.2   on what dates is it payable?
4.3   is it payable in advance or in arrear?
4.4   please say when and how it was last fixed and supply a copy of any relevant document
5.   If the tenancy was created before 15 January 1989 is the rent registered? If so, please supply a copy of the registration and any notice of increase
6.   What was the rateable value of the dwelling on 31 March 1990?
7.   Has there been a succession to the tenancy? If so, please supply full details
8.   Has the tenant been supplied with the statutory particulars of the local rent allowance scheme? If so, how?
9.   Has the landlord received payment of the tenants rent allowance direct from the local authority?
10.   Has the Seller, or any predecessor in title, applied to the housing authority to re-house the tenant, under the  Rent (Agriculture) Act 1976 section 27? If so:-
10.1   what was the result?
10.2   please supply copies of the DEFRA assessment, the advice of the agricultural dwellinghouse advisory committee, and the decision of the authority
10.3   please give details of any tenancy deposit scheme operated
11.   Is any dwelling on the Property affected by an agricultural user restriction under any planning permission? If so, please give details
12.   Please provide details of the Council Tax band of each dwelling on the Property and the current amounts payable
13.   State the date on which the local authority certified the dwelling as being fit for occupation after completion of the relevant works
14.   Confirm that all the conditions of the grant were complied with throughout the period of five years beginning with the certified date and that no part of the improvement grant became or has become repayable
15.   Is there a septic tank on or serving any part of the Property? If so, please mark its position on a plan, also showing the position of all associated pipes and the overflow
Occupancy
16.   Please confirm that:-
16.1   vacant possession of the whole will be given on completion
16.2   no right of holdover will be required. If so, please state when and in what condition the Seller proposes to leave the Property after any crop now growing has been harvested
17.   If vacant possession of the whole will not be given:-
17.1   please supply details of all persons other than the Seller now occupying or farming any part of the Property (other than any dwelling)
17.2   on what basis do those persons occupy or farm the part concerned?
18.   Please specify any sporting rights which are not in hand and supply full details of, and a copy of any relevant document relating to, the exercise of any such rights
Rights of way
19.   Is there any public footpath or other public right of way crossing the Property?
20.   Has any footpath or other public right of way on the Property been ploughed up? If so, please supply details and a copy of the relevant notice
In-filling
21.   Has there been any in-filling on the Property? If so, please:-
21.1   supply full details, including the dates and the nature of the in-filling
21.2   state the use to which the land had previously been put
Flooding/subsidence
22.   Please give details of:-
22.1   any flooding that has affected the Property
22.2   any subsidence or heave which has affected any structure on the Property
Disease
23   Have any cattle which have been on the Property within the last six years suffered from bovine spongiform encephalopathy? If so, please give details
24.   Have any animals on the Property been affected by foot and mouth disease, blue tongue or any other notifiable disease? If so, please give details
25.   Is any part of the Property affected by disease, pests or persistent weeds, eg wireworm, rhizomania, blackgrass. If so, please supply details
Adverse matters
27.   Is the Seller aware of any past existing or proposed public or private rights of way claimed or exercised over the Property? If so, please supply full details, including copies of all orders and notices
28.   Please supply full details of any of the following of which the Seller is aware:-
28.1   any other rights or informal arrangements affecting the Property
28.2   any restrictions affecting the Property, other than any referred to in the draft contract
28.3   any interests set out in Schedules 1, 3 and 12 to the    Land Registration Act 2002
29.   Does the Seller own or occupy any adjoining or nearby property? If so, please:-
29.1   specify the property concerned
29.2   supply details of all quasi-easements or analogous rights or privileges enjoyed by such property over or affecting the Property, with details of the part of that property which has the benefit of them
30.   Is the Seller aware that any part of the Property is subject to any liability for chancel repair, corn rent or other unusual liability or payment? If so, please give full details
31.   Has the land been used by the public or the local inhabitants for open air recreation? If so, give details
Copyhold
32.   Was any part of the Property formerly copyhold? If so, please supply details
Planning
33.   Please supply a copy of each planning permission which relates to the Property or any part of it
34.   In relation to each agricultural building please state whether it was erected or altered:-
34.1   under a specific planning permission
34.2   in reliance on the terms of the General Development Order
35.   If any part of the Property is used for a non-agricultural use (eg farm shop, cottage holiday lettings, commercial buildings etc), please supply full details
36.   Is there an established use certificate relating to any part of the Property or has there ever been an unsuccessful application for such a certificate? If so, please supply a copy with its plan (if any)
37.   Is any building on the Property a listed building? If so, please:-
37.1   specify the building
37.2   supply a copy of the listing
37.3   confirm that no listed items have been removed or altered
37.4   supply a copy of any listed building consent obtained
37.5   confirm that no works for which listed building consent was required by have been carried out without such consent
38.   Is there any ancient monument on any part of the Property? If so, please supply particulars
39.   Is the Seller aware that any part of the Property is, or is likely to be, designated as an area of archaeological importance? If so, please give details
IACS – Single Payment Scheme (‘SPS’)
40.   For ease of reference ‘the Seller’ refers to the transferor of the Property and the SPS Claimant (if different). ‘Property’ refers to the land being transferred, while ‘Holding’ is the Seller’s IACS holding. (It may assist if whoever completed the Seller’s SPS application form also completes the reply to these enquiries)
Entities
41.   Please confirm the identity of the SPS claimant in respect of the Property
42.   If the SPS claimant is a separate entity, please confirm that that entity will be party to and sign the contract to transfer entitlements (‘Entitlements’) to the Buyer or his nominee
Entitlements
43.   How many Entitlements (to 2 decimal places) are to be transferred?
44.   Please confirm that the hectarage of the Property comprising SPS eligible land is not lower than the number of Entitlements to be transferred under the proposed transaction
45.   Of the Entitlements to be transferred please provide details of:-
45.1   Normal; formerly Set-aside Entitlements
45.2   Normal Entitlements
45.3   Special Entitlements
46.   Please confirm that all Entitlements to be transferred were validly applied for
47.   Please provide details of the Entitlements for which payments are being claimed this year
48.   What part of the purchase price is being apportioned to the Entitlements?
49.   If the Property being transferred is the Seller’s whole Holding what is the intention regarding this year’s payment?
50.   Please confirm that a transfer application will be submitted as soon as possible
51.   Does any of the Property lie within English Upland SDA or English Moorland within the Upland SDA? If so please provide details
52.   Please provide details of the SPS eligible agricultural areas of the Property
53.   Please identify which areas of the Property are not eligible for payments under SPS (such as non grazable woodland, forests (but not commercial forests tree nurseries in woodland or land in eligible forestry scheme), peat production, non agricultural use)
54.   Please identify any areas of the Property which are permanent pasture
55.   Please identify any areas of orchards or grazed woodlands
56.   Have any of the Entitlements to be transferred been applied for on the basis of commons rights of the Seller (Annex 5c of the SP5a)? If so, please provide details
57.   Do any of the Entitlements have an historic element which derives in full or in part from dairy payments, and for which an uplift in value was awarded in 2006?
58.   Please provide details of any non-agricultural use on eligible SPS land including, where relevant, specific dates and areas
59.   Please provide copies of the Rural Land Register maps for the property. If these have not yet been finalised please provide copies of correspondence, forms and plans submitted to the RPA
60.   Please provide a copy of the latest SP5a Form and any supplemental forms and documentation submitted to the RPA together with confirmation as to when this was received
61.   Please provide full details of any disputes or anomalies relating to the Seller’s claim to establish Entitlements and claim payments
62.   Please provide full details of any licence agreements affecting the Property
63.   Please provide details of any contracting arrangements affecting the Property
64.   Please supply a copy of the latest statement of payments and allocation station from the RPA


Just for starters