[Old Shep]

Hi I went to a very interesting talk the other night on lambing and calving.  Sorry we don't have cows so the calving bit didn't register but some interesting thoughts on lambing.  Excuse me if these are all something that I should already know - but I would welcome your thoughts on any of these ideas:
To avoid prolapses, apart from not over feeding, dont feed hay/silage in the last few weeks and never mix in beet pulp with the sheep cake to make it "go" further.
Soya is a very good feed at the end of pregnancy because it gives good protein without requiring "energy" to digest.  Add with cake or buy cake with it in.
75% of the foetus growth is in the last 4 weeks!
Ewes can stand to lose a bit of condition towards the end of pregnancy, just be sure to feed really well after birth.
Glucose injections can save sickly lambs - you need to get your vet to show you how to do it the first time.
Colostrum is obviously best from the lambs mother but second choice is from another sheep that has lambed in last 24 hours or newly calved cows milk (frozen and thawed naturally) and last choice the powdered variety.
With your iodine "dip" pot - don't use until there are just dregs in the bottom - throw it away, clean the pot and refill.  If the ewe licks off the iodine or it gets wiped of the naval - re-do it.
To rear lambs for market the most efficient time to put on weight is when they are on the mothers - so feed the ewes then really really well - its better now than having to put lots of feed into weaned lambs.  However once the grass is growing (consistently 5-6cm long) - grass is far better than feed, so knock off the feed to encourage more grazing.
I'm sure there were lots more! 

[ZaktheLad]

Sounds like a very interesting and informative talk.  Did they suggest any alternatives for the hay/silage in the last few weeks, as I do wonder what mine would eat when the grass is virtually nonexistent and what is there over the winter and into Feb/March has very little goodness in it.  This year has been particularly bad for grass growth and my ewes have really enjoyed their ad-lib hay.  I just wouldn't feel right expecting my ewes to survive on a few nuts morning and evening. 

[Old Shep]

Yes we have been feeding lots of hay too, I think its fine until you get to the last 4 weeks, then he said just cake.  Apparently there may look to be no grass but even if its very short they get quite a bit from continual grazing.  We fed more cake last year and had a couple of prolapses and some very big lambs and difficult births so we are not giving them as much this year and thought we'd make it up with hay!  Any way they are refusing hay now so the grass must be growing a bit with us.

[Anke]

I wouldn't have thought that cow colostrum is really advisable for lambs.... I read somewhere that not to use it (Tim Tyne's sheep book). Goat's colostrum (frozen and slowly re-thawed) is surely better than cows?
 
Also for goats it is not advised to feed a high-protein diet in the last few weeks of pregnancy, as it increases the chances of pregnancy toxaemia. My ewes always have soaked shreds with their feed - good for energy and high in calcium, and I have yet to see a prolapse... (I am sure there will be on some day...)
 
If I wouldn't feed hay/haylage to the sheep they wouldn't survive - no grass... and they need it to keep the rumen going.

[YorkshireLass]

Is the "not feeding hay /silage" idea coming from the lamb now being so large that the stomach and rumen are compressed, and so energy-rich food is needed?

[Old Shep]

exactly Yorkshire lass - if there's not much room in there I presume its better to feed energy rich food rather than fill it up with roughage.  As long as they are outside they will get a bit of grass when grazing.  If they are inside then they would need hay. I'm just learning though...
 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Difficult to balance the last4 weeks only feed sheep nuts and last 4 weeks most of the lamb growth happens. How to avoid the lambs being too big!


I've always fed hay right up to lambing and just a few nuts and no birthing problems let alone prolapses. Hopefully that will continue...

[Marches Farmer]

Rumen needs fibre to work efficiently - acidosis if fed only concentrates.  They'll eat less in the last few weeks anyway due to lack of room in the rumen.  We dip navels 10-20 minutes after birth then again an hour later.  Never had one with joint or navel ill.  Use an old plastic screwtop bottle with quite a wide opening, put the cord inside then upend it over the stomach, pushing in quite tightly so it doesn't pour out.

[wellies]

interesting points from the lecture you went to. A local farmer near to me said not to feed hay in the last few weeks even when its cold or has snowed due to the risk of prolapse. Mine come in before lambing and do have hay which they nibble on. To be honest mine still waiting to lamb are obsessed with clean straw at the moment so not sure how I would stop them eating that. We had small lambs at the begining of lambing this year and I increased feed rations, the last one was big though (went to 151 days) so now I'm panicing they'll get stuck 

[YorkshireLass]

Can anyone explain to me the mechanism of how exactly eating hay would lead to a prolapse? Is it literally a case of not enough room in the body (but then surely the ewe would stop eating)?

[SallyintNorth]

The ewe's need for glucose in those last weeks is enormous; she will take it from her own body reserves (if it's there) but will eat to get it where she can.  So yes, YL, they will eat until they start to turn inside out.

Vets don't like 'em, but the licky buckets that deliver plenty of sugar are ideal, we find.  (We use the red Crystalyx.)  They can get what they need sugar-wise without having to fill up on bulky foods to get it.

In days of yore, farmers had molasses drums out for the sheep.  You can't seem to get the liquid molasses for them any more.

[Bramblecot]

Why do vets not like the lick buckets?  I know they contain a lot of molasses.  Getting more confused by the minute over what to feed.  the more I learn, the more I stress about them

[SteveHants]

Hi I went to a very interesting talk the other night on lambing and calving.  Sorry we don't have cows so the calving bit didn't register but some interesting thoughts on lambing.  Excuse me if these are all something that I should already know - but I would welcome your thoughts on any of these ideas:
To avoid prolapses, apart from not over feeding, dont feed hay/silage in the last few weeks and never mix in beet pulp with the sheep cake to make it "go" further.
Soya is a very good feed at the end of pregnancy because it gives good protein without requiring "energy" to digest.  Add with cake or buy cake with it in.
75% of the foetus growth is in the last 4 weeks!
Ewes can stand to lose a bit of condition towards the end of pregnancy, just be sure to feed really well after birth.
Glucose injections can save sickly lambs - you need to get your vet to show you how to do it the first time.
Colostrum is obviously best from the lambs mother but second choice is from another sheep that has lambed in last 24 hours or newly calved cows milk (frozen and thawed naturally) and last choice the powdered variety.
With your iodine "dip" pot - don't use until there are just dregs in the bottom - throw it away, clean the pot and refill.  If the ewe licks off the iodine or it gets wiped of the naval - re-do it.
To rear lambs for market the most efficient time to put on weight is when they are on the mothers - so feed the ewes then really really well - its better now than having to put lots of feed into weaned lambs.  However once the grass is growing (consistently 5-6cm long) - grass is far better than feed, so knock off the feed to encourage more grazing.
I'm sure there were lots more!

Thats really interesting!


A lot of these things are 'inbuilt' into my system - I gave the ewes (due from Apr 16th) the last hay today because as soon as there is any kind of grass movement they duly ignore it, over the last few days one or two had come in for it, but today, none. They had been getting it since it snowed.


They don't get cake, ever - but they have had general purpose mineral licky buckets which contain fish oil and molasses since the beginning of Feb.  They will get high energy (+Mag) licks when I start to see bagging up, but only because I have some biddies that need taking care of.


Because the grass has kicked in by then, grass makes up the majority of what the ewes eat whilst they are nursing. Stocking 3.5ish/ac ensures everyone has plenty to eat.


I never know whether to bother dipping navels or not outdoors, If I'm catching them up to tag post birth I will, but if the weather is too crappy, I generally leave them completely alone - better a lamb hunkered down with mum than a tag in place - lives are more worthwhile than records. The wind does seem to dry them pretty quick outside though.


Edited to add: I have never had a prolapse. Had one ewe with hypocalcaemia last year, never seen twin lamb disease in my flock.

[ScotsGirl]

I have a ewe that has had slight prolapse for last 2 years and definitely got worse when I upped the hay. Too much bulk in shrinking belly. However this year by chance a friend had bought a load of horse Debbie but pony wouldn't eat it. Lucky sheep got it! They had a couple of bags a week And loved it and no sign of prolapse despite carrying triplets.

[lachlanandmarcus]

Just wondering what's horse Debbie??