[Tomtwo]

Hi all
I'm new to this forum and was hoping for some advice.  At the beginning of December I sent 3 of my Large Blacks off to our usual abattoir and so far have only received one back!  Obviously, with the snow before Xmas and then Xmas we have had somewhat sporadic communication with them.   They did offer me another pig but what turned up was so fatty and nothing like our meat that I sent it back.  I have now asked them for financial compensation which they have not agreed to.  They are coming to see me next week to 'sort it out' in their words.  Does anyone know what rights I have with regard to this situation.  In other words do we send our pigs off at our own risk?
Many thanks and any advice would be very much appreciated.

[robert waddell]

first name and shame you never know they could have done it before
what method of identifcation did you use tag notch tattoo slap mark or spray
i would be carefull when they come to see you (if they are wearing there slaughter gear)
trading standards should put you right on your rights
if it is any consolation your not the first in this situation they have sold your pigs to someone else

[Tomtwo]

They all had metal tags. I have the paperwork showing their kill weights etc and they have charged me for killing and butchering 3 pigs.  I'm sure that someone else is enjoying my pigs.   

[doganjo]

They all had metal tags. I have the paperwork showing their kill weights etc and they have charged me for killing and butchering 3 pigs.  I'm sure that someone else is enjoying my pigs.   

I know nothing about abattoirs etc but what happens when you get your pigs back apart from the paperwork you obviously have - do you have to sign a receipt for the meat you get back?  If so and you haven't signed then that is proof you didn't get them.  Logically if you didn't get your pigs back then you have a legal claim to compensation - but there is a lady on here who may be able to help you - try a PM to valr

[jinglejoys]

So much for traceability

[robert waddell]

well yes they can trace it you have not got the ability(traceabilty) like the need to know bassis metal tags should stay in what they have done is steal them come on name and shame are they going to sue you dont think so bad publicity and all that

[doganjo]

My goodness, Lilian or Lilian OH, you ARE a rebel rouser, aren't you.  Yes, it would appear that Tomtwo's pigs have been stolen, but even the abattoir can't dispute the fact that three went in and only one came out.  I am suggesting the peaceable method of rectifying the situation.  Is that not the best course of action?  Anyway, it'll have to wait until next week now, won't it?

[robert waddell]

if you put your rolls royce in for a service and got a skoda back would you not be slightly miffed
same principal
peaceable yes but have they done it before and are they going to do it again
it happens more than you think

[Fleecewife]

The abattoir is in breach of the laws regarding traceability if they have lost your pigs.  There should always be a vet on duty at every killing, so contact them, plus Trading Standards.
This happened to us with 7 sheep a few years back.  They tried to pretend some other carcases were ours - twice - but they clearly were not.  Ours were Jacobs, with a totally different conformation to the ones they tried to fob off on us.  Also the group were a different make-up of sexes.  In the end the vet made them give us carcases of my choice, but even then they were nothing like as tasty as ours would have been and we hated eating them.  It eventually emerged that they had exported ours as light lamb to Portugal, so there was no way they could get them back.  The vet reported the breach of regs, as was his duty, and the abattoir closed shortly afterwards.  Since then the rules have tightened up dramatically, so this kind of 'mislaying' of any animal is absolutely unacceptable.  Sounds as if the abattoir are acting as if they have the upper hand, but I think that in fact you do - the least they will face is a hefty fine from Trading Standards.

[Eve]

TomTwo, do you know anyone at trading standards or a vet or any other organisation that might advise you - you'll probably need some moral support at that meeting at the least. Have a look at the Animal Welfare and the Meat Hygiene websites - one belongs to trading standards, the other to Defra, give them a call first thing Tuesday morning.

[Tomtwo]

Thank you so much for all you help - very much appreciated.  I think I will call Trading Standards next week to see what they say.  I took a long time choosing an abattoir and the one we chose seemed to have a really good reputation - they did a really good job with our first three pigs.  Anyway, as to naming and shaming... Laverstoke Park.  One other thing to add is the pig we did get back came with only three trotters and no head!!???

[robert waddell]

the head gets used and the trotters used for gellitine this is the problem with somebody else butchering your pigs what you have on the hook is not what is returned 

[princesspiggy]

the same thing happened to us once, we sent 3 lambs but 2 got lost and cut up with the other sheep. our abbatior was really good about it, they apologized and told us straight away and paid us for the sheep that were missing, and above the market rate so we were happy. geniune mistake and their attitude was right and that made the difference to us.

[Padge]

this is a bit disconcerting      first some random post intimating this sort of thing goes on  and now this very real post  with all the rules regs and paper work making you accountable as a keeper of livestock what kind of guarantees do you get at the other end...........I may seem a bit of a dits in lala land but the reason for us embarking on this epic adventure was for traceability quality etc etc as i'm sure is true of many .......just exactly what can we do to protect that which is ours? And as for name and shame.............i'm absolutely with Lillian or LillianOH on that one     

[Mr Pig]

You have traceability in a number of ways. Firstly your movement licence lists the number of pigs delivered so the abattoir cannot quibble. Go to them and ask them to compensate you at the rate you would have sold the meat at. You will know the d/w from the carcase you got back. The pigs are your property and they have no means of claiming otherwise. If they refuse to compensate you in full tell them you will take them to the small claims court.

The best way of ensuring that you get your own pigs back (mistakes happen) is to tattoo or notch the ears especially if they are birth notified and slap mark the shoulders just before you deliver them. Plastic id tags can and do melt in the de-bristling process and metal tags can be dislodged in the same way.