The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: shygirl on January 27, 2014, 06:23:13 pm
-
why does it seem to be so acceptable to be hated for just being English?
if i was pakistani etc it would be soo non-pc but being english and living in scotland it just seems fair game.
had a crap day at work today. the scottish wifeys must have forgotten i was there as they were talking being at the movies and about having to sit next to these English people with such hatred in their voices, it was if they had to sit next to someone who had shat themselves.
when they realised id overheard they did apologise but why is it necessary to hate someone just because of the place they were born?
oh well, shame im their boss ha ha
-
you realise in Scotland that is covered under race discrimination laws...
as we discovered when one of the kids was getting a hard time at school for being english...
schools don't want a race discrimination issue on there file and work very hard to resolve the problem...
might be worth pointing it out to said staff!!!
-
so, they only realised it was wrong when they were caught out? Sound like some pretty unpleasant people to me, I'd have the book thrown at them.
-
Call their bluff. I find that engaging them in a conversation about independance and saying you are a supporter of independance confuses such people!
-
I dont think its acceptble & not in a work place....(Although maybe they don't class you the same as the other 'english' ;) bit like my hubby & his feelings towards those in the shire :-J
I was born in Coventry, spent my youth in Oxord, moved up to bonnie scotland, married a Scot & have had 2 children up here - both have my English accent hee hee! I'd like them to sound more scottish seeing as this is where they were born and as they grow hopefully they will but hey ho, it's a big world and we can't like everybody for what ever reasons! :sunshine:
-
That's a real shame. I thought we (the Scots) had got past this anti-English attitude - I think it stems from the feeling of downtrodden-ness and second class-ness that Scots have often felt or have been subjected to by their 'English Masters". But it's pretty outdated now.
I agree with NicandChic that there are different degrees of Englishness and they probably don't think of you as English. Bit like me and Dan ;D
-
I think what many people need to remember is that this is a throw back to the times when we were oppressed by 'The English' NOT by each and every individual English born person who has ever come to live amongst us - but by 'The English' inasmuch as King Edward's Army - we sent him hame again tae think again.
As individuals, generally speaking English, Irish, Welsh, French, German - and any other nationals are welcomed by the majority of people in my country. There are a few who really believe what tehy are saying but that is most likely because they are ignorant rather than racist.
But personally speaking if 'proud Edward' ever rose again I'd be in there with my targe too. :innocent:
Why not try giving your staff a History lesson Shygirl, and I do wish English and any other person would stop taking offence so easily and learn our history. of being downtrodden.
-
i have learnt your history doganjo, we have walked around culloden mortified and shameful of what the english have done. there are no excuses. but i didnt do it..... :'(
however my brother died in the army protecting the uk, not just england.
although i class myself as english, iv lived in 5 different countries, in england for 15 yrs and scotland for 10.
iv 2 kids born in scotland tho we all speak with an english accent :roflanim:
i cant seem to lose my accent at all, and neither do i want to, but it is funny that i understand the broadest doric. scottish words come into my head but only english ones come out of my mouth.
the funny thing is the ladies i work with are actually kind, always giving me toys and clothes etc for the kids but i was taken aback over the bitterness and hatred that i overheard. :rant:
nevermind
-
I think what many people need to remember is that this is a throw back to the times when we were oppressed by 'The English' NOT by each and every individual English born person who has ever come to live amongst us - but by 'The English' inasmuch as King Edward's Army - we sent him hame again tae think again.
As individuals, generally speaking English, Irish, Welsh, French, German - and any other nationals are welcomed by the majority of people in my country. There are a few who really believe what tehy are saying but that is most likely because they are ignorant rather than racist.
But personally speaking if 'proud Edward' ever rose again I'd be in there with my targe too. :innocent:
Why not try giving your staff a History lesson Shygirl, and I do wish English and any other person would stop taking offence so easily and learn our history. of being downtrodden.
Try living today and taking that sort of stick everyday before spouting history. Its happening to shygirl today and its not pleasant being judged, not for who you are or what your about but basically on what is a accident of birth. Nobody has any control of where you just happen to have been born.
-
But that's the point - it wasn't directed at you, nor your family nor your lovely brother :'( :'( :'( - it was directed at a history that they probably don't properly understand. Just ignore them or teach them! :excited: :love:
-
Try living today and taking that sort of stick everyday before spouting history. Its happening to shygirl today and its not pleasant being judged, not for who you are or what your about but basically on what is a accident of birth. Nobody has any control of where you just happen to have been born.
I have done, my husband was born in Aylesbury, lived in Plymstock most of his life till he moved up here in the early 90's and met me. I know what it was like for him to hear such vile tones - but NONE of it was aimed at him, and he eventually realised that and became as Scots if not more so than me. I could have counted on my hands the number of non Scottish people at his funeral. He is still remembered with love in Old Rayne 11 years later. :'(
These people are NOT judging Shygirl or her family - they are judging the oppressors of hundreds of years ago. They need educating, they are for the most part not bad people - just misinformed. It isn't a crime.
-
There's no place for racism, there can't be any excuse for it. It ruins peoples lives.
-
There's no place for racism, there can't be any excuse for it. It ruins peoples lives.
I agree wholeheartedly but I really don't think this is.
I DO have experience of this - my son-in-law is English, as are his parents who live here, my late husband also was English, as were his brothers and sisters. They are all loved as if they had been born here.
If these words shygirl heard had been directed at her or her family they would be racist. I agree it is not nice but these people are to be pitied and educated.
-
annie remember i love you lots...
but it is... racism is any discrimination against any individual because of their personal beliefs or place of birth.
Even though it wasn't directed at Shygirl it was about people from England so was racism...
-
annie remember i love you lots...
but it is... racism is any discrimination against any individual because of their personal beliefs or place of birth.
Even though it wasn't directed at Shygirl it was about people from England so was racism...
But it was directed at 'The English' - so are we called racist for anything we say now about any nation? I don't think these people in the cinema were being discriminated against. They were just being talked about - after the event,
Sorry if i am being dense but I see a difference here even if no-one else does. I often refer to 'Englandshire' does that make me racist too? If so you'd better all call the cops and slap me in jail!
-
We have had English people come and go in our neighbourhood , I don't bad mouth them but do fine that they complain a lot. I could give you a list but no point. Scottish people do not forget their history nor should we. Talking behind someone's back is not nice I was brought up with the saying if you can't say any nice do not saying anything at all and stand by that as much as possible. When you have had the experience of an English neighbour making your life hell then its hard to be nice. Lucky for us they moved but the few years we did have them was a nightmare. My neighbour now is English and we get on great, I could not ask for a better friend. Not all of us have a problem and try to be fair.
-
iv been told to floot off back to england many a time by my neighbours around here but im hardened to it now but i still think its racists.
a friends son was arrested, charged, in court and fined for calling someone "black barsteward" whilst queueing up outside a pub. but i bet if he had said english barsteward that would have been acceptable.
-
But you're doing it right now.
You're not just talking about a neighbour, you're talking about an English neighbour. In this context, why make any reference to their country of origin.? It simply shouldn't matter where they come from. If I was living in England and was referring to one of my neighbours, I simply wouldn't think about whether they came from Scotland, England, Ireland or anywhere else. They'd be Fred or Joan who just happened to come from a particular place.
-
I sympathise with you Shygirl, when i used to visit my ex partners family in Glasgow, I got so I would expect nasty comments about me being English, not just from some of his large family but from people who didn't even know me, I have been ignored in pubs and shops because of my accent, so I stopped going. Some german people I was chatting to once in Kinlochleven also mentioned the rudeness shown to them. However, I must say that I always found the Highlanders and people living in the borders to be lovely. Maybe it's the city mentality? :thinking:
-
So to interupt folks but shygirl i have sent you pm, i need advice please
-
I'm glad to say that when we bought our place our Scottish farming neighbours were (like I would be ) much less concerned about where we came from but more about whether we were nice people, good neighbours and not a nightmare, and also would we just come for holidays as they preferred to see someone living here and contributing all year round. Thankfully I think we passed as we spend Xmas and Hogmanay partying with all of them and their families.
Feel very lucky.
-
So to interupt folks but shygirl i have sent you pm, i need advice please
i have pm-ed you :hug:
-
I have to join in here. As I have often mentioned, I lived for 11 years on Isle of Arran and a big consideration when my ex and I decided to move back down south was the anti-English insults that had been thrown at us over the years. I had the local shopkeeper moaning at me about "you Southerners" and about "your government". That was in the Maggie Thatcher era and I have never voted Tory but I still used to get blamed. To be fair, it wasn't the Arran folk but the Scottish incomers.
Most of the time we got on very well and one of the worst was actually a good friend of ours, but it does get you down when it happens so often.
I feel ashamed of what the English did to the Scots in times gone by, the same as I feel guilt about what white people did to black people, and I have said so many times, but I can't be held responsible for what happened in the past and I can't change it, any more than I could stop Maggie Thatcher from all the damage she did.
The thing is that if people don't let the past rest, there will always be problem like this. A friend who moved from Berwick, just south of the border, to just north of the border told me her son was beaten up at school for being English. As it happened, he was Scottish born and bred but they had lived in England while my friend was at college. Children get it from their parents.
I remember my youngest,then aged about 7 or 8, talking with venom about "the enemy". He was referring to Germans. I don't know where he picked it up but I stopped it. I pointed out that his best friend was half German and that the friend's grandfather had probably fought in the war. If I had let it go, he would have grown up thinking of the Germans as "the enemy". We can't continue to dwell on what happened in the past.
Having said all that, I would love to go back and live on Arran, the most beautiful place in the world.
-
Found myself humming "imagine" all of a sudden. Feels like a trickier topic than "whens the best time to heptavac" .. I am aware that being English suits me fine when I'mm cheering on the boys to another glorious defeat on penalties but not quite so keen when I'm somehow expectedto feel some degree of responsibility for the aatrocious sins of historical tyrants. I've experienced hatred based on the accident of my birthplace when living in northern Germany many years ago and on holiday in Ireland more recently. As much as I disliked it and felt an acute sense of injustice, just a brief glance at history (as others have suggested) puts it in perspective. I prefer to take people as I find them and would love to think john lennon's ideal world was possible- but then again I wasn't born in a nation with a history of being oppressed ( in fact the total opposite. So as unpleasant as it might be to be thought of as an English ba**ard when I'm actually quite nice I know that that abuse does not come close to holding the same power or weight that it carries for someone who is black, or irish or gay! Or wait for it.... Scottish
-
My parents were born in London , mum Acton and dad Stonebridge , i was born in Catterick , dad was in the army .
I lived in London till i was 20 when we moved to Wales in 1977 . So i have lived the majority of my life in Wales and think of Wales as my home . I was born in England and i am English and proud of it , but England was just where i was born and grew up , Wales is my home .
I have experienced anti English racism , but that was back in the 70's .
A lot of the historic anti English racism dates back to the 12th century round here , i just point out that mainly the English invaders were in fact Norman royalty ! , French , not English .
Before i got my land i was thinking of buying a farm in Bulgaria , until my nephew said " blimey , you will be my uncle in Bulgaria !" , that was the end of that idea , i may look like a tramp , but no way am i going to be a feckin womble !
Underground overground wombling free - the annoying thing is , i do collect lots of old crap ! , bugger , i still get called a womble .
-
rusty - you do make me laugh - we had a teacher at school whom everyone called the womble - how mean - but she really did look like one :roflanim: :roflanim:
-
Here was i thinking it was not cool to be
Northern Irish.(across the Irish sea)
We to have English and Scotch neighbours
and get on great, no one seems to be concerned.
-
A bit of me wants to leave this with Rusty's great story. (Nice one Russ :thumbsup:)
But there is a serious point that I think does need a bit more exploration.
Not that long ago, most of Europe had cause to hate the German regime of the time. It spilled over into a hatred of German people and all things Germanic. Alsatian dogs, Dachshunds, other German breeds were euthanased and worse in their thousands.
The atrocities carried out by that regime must never be forgotten and cannot ever be forgiven.
These days, it would be regarded as crass, insensitive and kinda stupid to denigrate a modern German for anything relating to that dark time.
Not sure I can understand why it's different for a Scot bad-mouthing the English, if it's really all about ancient history?
And sorry Annie, love you lots too :-*, but to hear comments about "those :censored: English"... I can't see how that's not racist. Substitute black, or Asian, or Muslem, for English and see if it still feels non-racist to you?
-
SITN, you have expressed my thoughts so well. The undertones in some of the posts make me feel rather :( and a bit :o.
Glad I moved from England to Wales and not Scotland. Only heard one anti-English comment since I have been here. That was said to my son. We were at a rural event and he was told when he spoke to one of the organisers that they knew he was a Welsh lad as they always drove quads better than the ********* English, etc etc. Had to :roflanim: ...... the childrens accents changed quite quickly and they sound a wee bit Welsh!!!!
Think the Welsh are quite proud of their nation too but our neighbours seemed relieved that we were "country people". That seemed to bother them more than where we came from. If I've sometimes said "but of course we're not Welsh" .... I've been told off and basically told to think of myself as Welsh.
Shygirl :hug:. Not sure how you deal with people that genuinely feel that way.
-
Shygirl, I should have said... whilst I do think the comments you overheard are racist, I do also agree with everyone who says that the people expressing those feelings would not be thinking of you as the hated English they were discussing. So absolutely don't take it personally. :hug:
-
Shygirl, I should have said... whilst I do think the comments you overheard are racist, I do also agree with everyone who says that the people expressing those feelings would not be thinking of you as the hated English they were discussing. So absolutely don't take it personally. :hug:
i know. when they realised what they had said infront of me there was an awkard silence then they apologized. just gave me an insight of what is said behind closed doors.
-
Shygirl, I should have said... whilst I do think the comments you overheard are racist, I do also agree with everyone who says that the people expressing those feelings would not be thinking of you as the hated English they were discussing. So absolutely don't take it personally. :hug:
i know. when they realised what they had said infront of me there was an awkard silence then they apologized. just gave me an insight of what is said behind closed doors.
So did you explain to them why they were thinking that way, and said those things and why they should never say them again? A history lesson? I think you should, if you haven't already,
in fact to all of you on here who obviously don't understand what I am saying - I agree that racism is wrong and should not be tolerated, but racism is against particular individuals and to me the talk mentioned was aimed at a whole Nation - that is a lack of intelligence and education - so the answer is to teach people exactly what happened in the 12th Century and subsequently (AND to Wales too remember, I'm reading a great book just now about a young woman who slipped back in time into the middle of the Welsh troubles from the 19th Century - worth reading - I'll try to find the title and author)
Educate and remove stigma and intolerance! Always!
-
If your company has a policy for racial discrimination, you may have an obligation to deal with the issue properly.
-
but talk against a whole nation is racism
if i said all Muslims are terrorists (its an example, i don't actually think it) I would be guilt of racism (and several other crimes under modern law)
where is the difference between that and all English people???
I can give further examples if required, but there really is no difference...
I love Scotland and I know its history, for me its the best place I have ever lived, but for a small minority it seems acceptable to distinguish against people for being English.
I know of several examples of someone with an English accent trying to buy something and being refused but a Scottish friend made the purchase on there behalf no problem... It does happen and the fact some Lords in the 12th Century (and for a long time afterwards) did some pretty crappy things, doesn't mean people living here now should put up with it...
-
That's what I was just mulling over, Bloomer.
If my children made certain negative comments about a nation, whatever it's history, there would be "discussion" about it.
-
You're still missing the point - what these women really mean is the ENGLISH Government not the people themselves! What happened all those years ago is being perpetuated now.
I really don't want to bring in the political aspect but to be honest this is exactly what it is - ask each one of those women what they think of their English neighbours and you'll find the truth. I'll bet they are best friends with a lot of English people.
We are still being controlled by London - as was seen in the jobs figures last night - 300,000 new jobs in London area, 3000 in Edinburgh and that's the best of them in Scotland!
No nation is all bad or all good - but governments are!
Education is what is needed. Yes, in the hills - discussion - explain the history and why they have thought to use those words and explain to them why they should not use them again. Discussion = education.
-
I think making judgements about people based on their race, religion etc etc is wrong but we're all human and most of us probably think bad things from time to time. Thankfully, we can't, as yet, be banged up for thinking things :relief:
A lot of the anti-English stuff in Scotland stems from an inferiority complex that we Scots have about our English neighbours (in the broadest sense) - we need to get past it. Hopefully a Yes vote in September will give us the confidence to go forward on an equal footing with the nation that should be our closest ally, friend and partner.
-
You're still missing the point - what these women really mean is the ENGLISH Government not the people themselves! What happened all those years ago is being perpetuated now.
hmmm, that is not what they said:
"had a crap day at work today. the scottish wifeys must have forgotten i was there as they were talking being at the movies and about having to sit next to these English people with such hatred in their voices, it was if they had to sit next to someone who had shat themselves."
How do you know what they actually meant was the British government in Westminster (history lesson, it hasn't been the English government for a long time)?. Have you spoken to them to ascertain why they said these clearly racist things?
As for using what happened hundreds of years ago to justify racism now, that is plainly ridiculous and evidence of a particularly small mind and spirit.
-
I don't think I missed the point at all.
Understand the historical and current situations.
Don't understand the need for Shygirl to be spoken to by her neighbours in that way or what the historical or current political situations have to do with anti- English comments she over heard. You could try to justify many racist comments/actions in a similar way surely. They are often directed at a group or nation rather than an individual but are surely still racist.
Bit sad if Shygirl has to 'educate' colleagues and neighbours. ::) Still I'm sure it is the minority of people around you Shygirl and not most.
-
Err....my history is a bit shakey, but surely 'the English' in the ancient battles you mention includes lowland Scots?
I was born in England and moved up to Scotland to go to Uni and stayed here ever since - 44 years except for a couple of years in Yorkshire and another couple in Anglesey. I married a Scot (who is often thought to be English because he doesn't have a broad accent) and have one son born in Scotland, the other in England, both 'genetically' half and half ::). The Scots born one had some major racist issues when he worked in England - such as 'f### off back to your own country you f###### Jock' Great - it's not just one sided and at the moment I often feel that the anti Scots climate in England is fuelled by the Government knocking the Scots over devolution and independence ie it suits their political ends. So between Braveheart on the one hand and some stirring from the Westminster folk (even the anti independence Scots) via the media, racial antipathy has become mutual, although based on prejudice not knowledge. Huge shame and what a load of claptrap. I love having all sorts of people from other nations here, even when there are major problems as new families settle into Britain.
But shygirl's experience was the other way round. I think a lot of how you feel about this, and whether or not it persists, is about how you react to it. As with every bullying situation, if those doing it feel they have scored a hit then they will persevere. If you turn it into a discussion not a row then that will help to defuse the situation. Jumping on high horses, however offended you actually feel, will not help in any way, but may well just fuel the negativity. I think it's true that once we get to know individuals of whatever nation, then we stop 'hating' (ie prejudging) the whole nation.
There is and I think always has been, this tendency amongst humans to notice the differences between their group, be it clan, nation, accent, language, beliefs or financial status, and to fight about it. Look back through world history and that's about all you see. Lack of racial prejudice is a sign of good education and of increasing globalisation. I can quite imagine that once as a world we meet another inhabited planet it will revert back to 'us' and 'them', where the 'us' will be all the nations of Earth.
-
help i'm in trouble then! product of an English Daddy and very Scotish Mummy. What would they call me ....a half breed ;D probably
-
I think making judgements about people based on their race, religion etc etc is wrong but we're all human and most of us probably think bad things from time to time. Thankfully, we can't, as yet, be banged up for thinking things :relief:
A lot of the anti-English stuff in Scotland stems from an inferiority complex that we Scots have about our English neighbours (in the broadest sense) - we need to get past it. Hopefully a Yes vote in September will give us the confidence to go forward on an equal footing with the nation that should be our closest ally, friend and partner.
But we're already your closest ally,friend and partner.
Saying that " the anti English stuff in Scotland stems from an inferiority complex that we Scots have about our English neighbours " is about as good an excuse for racism as the lawyer who tries to excuse 'thieving Jonnys' hooligan ways on a deprived childhood.
There's nothing wrong with being pro Scottish or pro Welsh, but there just isn't any reason why being nationalistic has to come hand in hand with being anti English.
-
I think I've told this story before, but it's appropriate so I'll tell it again.
A little over 15 years ago, I worked in an office where two English people shared a desk with a Scot and a Welsh person. We were all really good friends, got on extremely well, did social things together too.
Then there was a world cup qualifiers or some such tournament. The two English folk supported teams as follows:
- If England is playing, then England
- If England is not playing, then whomever of Scotland, Wales or Ireland is playing
- Otherwise the team opposing any team that has recently beaten England ;)
My Scottish and Welsh friends openly admitted, that, they said, like most of their respective races, they supported:
- If their own national team is playing, then that team
- If their own national team is not playing, then if England is playing, the team opposing England (even if that team recently beat their own national team :o)
- Otherwise, any team that has recently beaten England
Hrmph.
-
I'm like you Sally. I'm an Englishman whose lived in Wales since 1988. I support Wales in every game they play other than when their game is against England. As far as the other home nations are concerned, I also support them when they are playing against 'foreign' teams.
-
Ok forget I spoke! My opinion doesn't matter in the bigger scale of things anyway ::)
Maybe I see things more politically than most. I am passionate by nature, I can't help it. For that, I do not apologise, but I apologise if anyone on here takes what I say the wrong way. I really dislike the way the government treats us Scots - let's be honest here - they do not have a clue what goes on past the M25!
I am trying to show that these women may NOT have intended to be racist, nor even imagined that they were.
In my opinion, it is up to ALL of us to educate our friends and neighbours if they bad mouth anyone else - whether for their race, colour, height, girth or anything else. I honestly doubt these women would have said these things direct to their cinema neighbours (and we don't know what may have annoyed them to say those things either) - as Shygirl said they immediately apologised to her when they realised what they were doing. I can't possibly know what was in their minds of course I can't. I can only assume that they really are NOT bad people since Shygirl works with them.
Edward had better not reincarnate! ;) I'll be ready for him! :excited:
-
We all dislike the way the government treats us.
-
I think making judgements about people based on their race, religion etc etc is wrong but we're all human and most of us probably think bad things from time to time. Thankfully, we can't, as yet, be banged up for thinking things :relief:
A lot of the anti-English stuff in Scotland stems from an inferiority complex that we Scots have about our English neighbours (in the broadest sense) - we need to get past it. Hopefully a Yes vote in September will give us the confidence to go forward on an equal footing with the nation that should be our closest ally, friend and partner.
But we're already your closest ally,friend and partner.
Saying that " the anti English stuff in Scotland stems from an inferiority complex that we Scots have about our English neighbours " is about as good an excuse for racism as the lawyer who tries to excuse 'thieving Jonnys' hooligan ways on a deprived childhood.
There's nothing wrong with being pro Scottish or pro Welsh, but there just isn't any reason why being nationalistic has to come hand in hand with being anti English.
I'm not making excuses, Bodger, I'm giving an opinion on what may have lead to this type of attitude. I don't condone it.
But in terms of nationhood, I'm afraid many Scots do not see England as a friend, partner and ally but as the dominant partner in a relationship that has outlived its relevance to Scotland.
The term "nationalistic" has nasty overtones for me and I prefer not to use it but I recognise Scotland as a nation and one that should be self determining but I agree that being "pro" Scottish does not mean that you have to be "anti" English.
-
:sunshine: you know, my OH has been here for over 30 years and he is still referred to in town (by some people, mainly in venues he no loger frequents regularly) as the "English Bastard". It is easier for me, being from abroad *oh, I just couldn't place your accent there, love"....
In my view these general feelings folks have up here for the English are quite seperate from the way they may feel about the person they have in front of them. Xenophobia (fear of anyone strange or foreign) is probably very human BUT one always has the choice to view the individual with respect. Once that gets lost, things get nasty....
Don't let it get to you too much,shygirl, you are not meant personally, although it can be hard.... :bouquet: :&>
-
Thankfully, many Scots do see England as a friend,ally and partner.
-
Thankfully, many Scots do see England as a friend,ally and partner.
As we will see come the day of the vote.
-
i will ask them tomorrow about what they think about independence. i did ask another scottish colleague today and he said it was 6 of one and half a dozen of the other so basically he doesnt really care either way.
i did read on an orkney forum about independence and one orcadian brought up the point that if scotland left the UK then they would like orkney to remain in the uk without scotland. that was an interesting thought.
-
Ok forget I spoke! My opinion doesn't matter in the bigger scale of things anyway ::)
I am trying to show that these women may NOT have intended to be racist, nor even imagined that they were.
I do get your point Doganjo, but I see casual, unthinking racism as every bit as offensive and pernicious as deliberate and targeted racism. It's not many years at all since 'political correctness' arrived on our shores from the States - thinking how racist in the broadest sense we all were back then is cringeworthy. A mix of laws, education and example have meant that we have improved our act quite a bit, but it hasn't trickled throughout the whole of society yet.
-
i did read on an orkney forum about independence and one orcadian brought up the point that if scotland left the UK then they would like orkney to remain in the uk without scotland. that was an interesting thought.
We holidayed in Orkney a few years back, and it was made very clear to us by a number of Orcadians that Orkney has never felt itself to be Scottish, and feels about government by Scotland as many Scots feel about government by England! Generally they felt themselves to be more Scandanavian, they said.
-
Ok forget I spoke! My opinion doesn't matter in the bigger scale of things anyway ::)
Well that's true of most of us. But don't underestimate the weight of your opinion within this fishpond Annie ;).
It's clear we all see the issues around racism generally differently too - prompted by your earlier comment that racism had to be targeted to an individual (which isn't how I would define it), I looked up a definition of racism and found both views expressed. I think it is clear however that racism is a factually unfounded prejudice against a whole race (or creed or other grouping), or against an individual because of that individual's membership of that race (or creed or whatever.)
-
Well put, Sally.
I agree that a lot of it is because of the government. As I said earlier, when I lived in Scotland, Maggie was PM and the hated Poll tax was brought in. At the time it was illegal as it was imposed on Scotland only and, as I understand it, when Scotland and England became part of the UK, it was laid down that the govt would never again inflict on Scotland, rules/taxes that did not also apply to England. I can understand why people were furious. BUT, and it's a big but, complaining to me about 'you lot' voting them in wasn't helpful because a) I personally did not vote Tory and b) I was liable for Poll tax as well.
Annie, your opinion does matter but that doesn't mean to say I have to agree with it. When you have people say to your face, "You English think/say/do..." (fill in as appropriate) that becomes more personal. And when you point out that that is rather offensive as we don't all think alike, and the response is, "Can't you English take a joke?" it isn't helpful.
To those who have wondered what nationality they count as if half Scottish/half English, according to the owner of our village shop on Arran her children, although born in England, are Scottish because their parents are Scottish. the children in the youth hostel were Scottish as they were born in Scotland, despite the fact that their father is English and their mother German. From this I deduce that if you are born in Scotland of non-Scottish parents, you are Scottish. If you are born in England but of Scottish parents, you are Scottish. :roflanim:
I do hope that Scotland gains independence and that one of the advantages is that the bad feeling ends. Hope we won't need passports to visit though. I don't have one.
-
I do hope that Scotland gains independence and that one of the advantages is that the bad feeling ends. Hope we won't need passports to visit though. I don't have one.
You won't need a passport. We'll get you through in the back of a van ;D
-
Thankfully, many Scots do see England as a friend,ally and partner.
As we will see come the day of the vote.
Ach well, naebody's asking you :)
-
did anyone see Limmy's comments on "that" vote on Charly Brookers weekly wipe? I laughed so hard I nearly weed myself :roflanim:
-
I do hope that Scotland gains independence and that one of the advantages is that the bad feeling ends. Hope we won't need passports to visit though. I don't have one.
You won't need a passport. We'll get you through in the back of a van ;D
Thanks, Rosemary. :roflanim:
-
For sometime now, I've been aware of the anti English sentiment expressed by a number of TAS members . I only ever joined the forum because of my interest in smallholdings and certainly not to experience such a prolonged political undertone. I've seen it in a number of threads and topics and this latest one has proven to be the straw that's broken the camels back.
-
Ach well, naebody's asking you :)
Was it this one? I didnt find that funny either.
-
Bodge......I can remember your very first encounter of the sort of comments you are referring to and its the same TAS members.......can't find the link to it tho probably best left....... most of us come for and to share experiences and information.....I'm sure this thread wasn't meant to turn particularly political but imo as largely a reader here.... there are those that can't help themselves when it comes to' nationality' issues....each to their own for me.........don't get all ticked off at an argument with so many different facets its impossible to win..... :love:
-
Not personally hugely bothered about anti English ( or otherwise) on here or anywhere else to be honest. People who choose to indulge in such unpleasant nonsense are best ignored. What is beginning to sadden me iz the tendency for an increasing number of threads on here to turn nasty. This one was Always a candidate for sure but it does seem more widespread. When I joined here I loved the fact that there was a real feel of community and none of the posturing b s I'd found on anothrr forum. Maybe its just a phase and maybe itz just me but it feels less pleasant on here more often . My activity on here has dropped off and I feel less inclined to run the risk of being got at in some way. I can get that sort of crap on Facebook any time. Here forome is about a commonality- a love of a way of life, of nature of the countryside and of produ jng our own food and wool and yarns. Why the helll does it matter where we live
-
I have locked this as it has run its course and now has drifted a long way from the original subject.
From the original section of the thread I would say that for a tough subject it was handled very well, people managed a debate with very strong viewpoints without resorting to personal attacks.
The later posts have drifted from this which is why it is time to lock this off.
Debate is welcome, even encouraged, so long as we all remain polite. As far as I can see no one has broken the rules but i feel it could go that way very soon.
As always if you feel a comment has over stepped the mark or offended you personally please use the report function and it will be investigated.
-
For sometime now, I've been aware of the anti English sentiment expressed by a number of TAS members .
Then please report it - it's contrary to the agreement members signed when joining the forum, and unacceptable. But if you don't report it, we won't necessarily know it's happening.