The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: Tullywood Farm on July 28, 2009, 10:26:46 pm
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I am doing a Social Science diploma, and the modules talk about Crime and imprisonment, both of which are escalating out of control in many countries.
It seems that the UN and other " Human rights Campaigners" have worked out with many governments that Imprisonment is not going to be an option in the future they believe that this has to be changed for several reasons.
All criminal acts will be dealt with by councelling, mentoring and changing mindset techniques to make people change and wish to comply with acceptable social norms of their culture and country.
Can you see this working with the mental cases that kill, rape, rob,and terrorise ???
Its common knowledge that most paedophiles and rapists come out of prison and do it again - even though they have been released because they are "rehabilitated and have gone through a change" this is why we need prisons - to keep them IN.
These people that are advising these changes to crime and punishment must believe that all people are capable of being "normal sheep".
They have not experienced dealing with non-confirmists, schitzophrenics and others that will not/can not change - the problem is in their make-up and that's that - no amount of talking to them will change it! Most of them are clever enough to make you believe they have changed just to get released.
The streets will not be safe if this goes ahead - its a cop out for the future when things get really bad ??? :o
The Government can say that it is against human rights to put someone behind bars, and I suspect no-one will react in great numbers once it is said.
The courts and prison systems cannot cope with it now - let alone when the influx starts for real, and major problems start in major cities all over.
What are your thoughts on this?
Julie
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Hi Julie, I can see this topic setting a few fireworks off
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Where is it all going? Some people need to be kept under restraint, they cannot always help how they are but put others at risk ALL the time!!!!! I used to visit Hostels on a regular basis and found it odd how many ex child sex offenders were placed in Hostels overlooking Schools?????? THe internet must help a great deal in grooming young people!!!! As I said in other posts, the victim always comes off worse and the criminal gets loads of help!!!!!!
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the problem is, many of the do gooders have no idea what pain really is!!!
they come from their cusioned world, where nothing bad ever happens and cant understand that some people are just plain bad!
most people have a something in built that tells them right from wrong.... its a moral code that is built in through good parenting, it might even be genetic coding .... who knows, but its there.
with all the bad parenting and cr*p kids see on the TV this behaviour we take to be normal is not being passed on to the next generation.
When i was a kid we respected adults. kids these days dont give a sh*t, because the parents, teachers, do gooders etc defend and reward bad behavour.
Last year i was in school talking with my daughters art teacher and my 14 year old son ran through the corridor....he did not see me.
Another teacher shoulted him, and he gobbed back. I knew his voice and turned round and slapped his checky face! and told him i never wanted to hear him talking to an adult like that.
He appologised and said, 'I didnt know you were their'
that was obvious!!!!
the teachers were a bit taken back. I also told all his friends who were following to tun=rn round and go back the way they came. No checky comments ;D
any way i am losing track..............
If a do gooders child is raped and murdered would they change their thoughts??? I think so
As far as i am concerned punishment now doesnt fit the crimes. People should be scared to offend.
I for one think capital punishment should be brought back.
If a pig kills her litter, do you give her another chance?
If a dog kills a child do you lock it in a kennel for 10 years?
People should be treated the same!!
If someone killed or seriously hurt one of my family, I dont think I would leave the punishment to the courts
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This is a time bomb just waiting to go off. Once again we hit the £ thing again . It costs millions to keep people locked up and they could be treated much better in the community ....WTF ? Haven't we heard this crap before ? Care in the community ? What did that do for the mentally ill....left most of them roaming the streets of all the big towns and cities of the UK . The same will happen to criminals that are 'treated' outside of prison. They will continue to commit more and more crimes with even more disregard than they have now. I have two brothers that have committed armed robbery , one has come out, after doing god knows how many years , and stayed out . He knew the last time he was inside, that he couldn't do anymore time . If he came in again he wouldn't be comming out !!! So he changed ,and is now holding down three different jobs , trying to make money any LEGAL way he can . He grows his own food and wants to keep bees , and is a fantastic artist, that is one of his jobs. The other ...oh my god ...he must have done 20 plus years inside now . He had a good career in the army, he qualified as a chef first grade. Then it all went tits up for some reason , and has done nothing but armed robbery on Post offices etc since. The last time he went down for a load of jobs he got life, as they had started the three times and your out crap . Somewhat copying the US three time loser thing . Anyway, the thing is, no matter how long he does or how many times he goes in , he will always do it again when he comes out . Prior to him becoming a category A prisoner , he would get days off ??? a weekend at home here and there. While on these weekend breaks , he would have jobs lined up ready to go and do . All worked out inside with other thieves and shite just like himself. The money he stole he would pay into his bank account and then when he went back inside he would get the governor to draw money out of his account to pay the drug pushers in the nick so that he didn't get killed.....This went on for years. The prison workers know this goes on , but they want a quiet life , and they know that without the drugs in nick they cannot cope with the prisoners in there. So the whole system keeps on rolling on , as corrupt as the government . We now have the added bonus of east European criminals here too . Murderers, rapists , paedophiles from all over the EU are walking around committing more offences over here . I can think of 4 that I heard of in the last few months . If they cut prisoners down and 'treat' them on the outside , then I am sorry we really are up that creek without a paddle . Armageddon really will be just round the corner. My brother has been diagnosed as a sociopath , and no amount of shite, soft talking mumbo jumbo crap, from any so called do gooder will change him, it has all been tried and failed, again and again . He is a really nice bloke , and I love him as I love all my brothers and sisters , but I don't kid myself , he is a piece of crap and always will be . The best place for him is PRISON , where he can't shove 12 bore shotguns up little old ladies noses and threaten to blow their f**king heads off. Would he do it ? if they didn't give him the money ...yes he would ...and think nothing of it . As I say, I love the little s**t to bits, and wish he could be like he used to be . But, as I always do when I talk about him , I am crying my eyes out as I write this , because I know he HAS to stay where he is . Where he is safe and so are Innocent law abiding people . Saying that, last year he was eligible for parole. I have no idea if he has been given it or not ? Phew ... some things can p**s me off , but this subject brings me to my knees . Wasn't it said elsewhere "you can choose your friends, but not your family !!!"
cheers
Russ
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Smiffy,
You are so right.
My beautiful Golden Retriever whom I loved, Jack, took a large bite out of my daughters leg when he and she were 4 years old.
The nurses at the hospital said not to hurt the dog, even when my daughter had to have surgery to fix the tendons in her leg and went through agony.
The ISPCA said it was Rage Syndrome because he was too purely bred. His pedigree was in the Hall of Fame in the Handbook of Golden Retrievers.
I asked Joe to take him to the vets and put him to sleep as I did not want anyone to go through what we had with our little girl.
He wouldn't waste the money - he took him hunting and shot him. Jack did not suffer but neither will anyone else.
Yes it hurts - the nurses were wrong- he had to go.
I also believe in the Death Penalty when it is proven with NO DOUBT and NO SET UP can have been made in order to prove the persons guilt. There have been a lot of mistakes in the past -that are really dreadful and I can see why people are reluctant to take a stance on this.
Then there are people like Peter Sutcliffe who are draining the system to keep him alive, a serial killer, who should be dealt with like my Jack was.
Thing is, Smiffy, people are all different, and unfortunately do not see thing the way that we do.
Countries where they still stone people ( the villagers usually do the deed) for serious offences are called barbaric, backward and worse, but they have very few people commiting crimes, and it is safe to go out on the streets. If you are caught stealing they chop your hand off - a good deterrent that cuts crime down for sure.
Mexico City would be a good example of a lawless society, people are murdered and raped on the street on a daily basis and nothing gets done - police are too busy looking after the big business folk, and moving money, crime is ignored.
This is a very tough subject for everyone to agree on - but it pisses me off, when a small country like Ireland can have people vote on the subject of abortion, and the people vote against it, on religious grounds mainly.
I was not able to vote at the time, but I can see that having a choice of the above would be necessary, in the case of say, Rape, where you do not want the child for many reasons. If this happens to you in Ireland you would have to travel to the UK for an abortion.
Also this opens up place for non-scrupulous doctors to perform back street abortions and cause all sorts of problems, or for say, young girls to take several concoctions, in order to kill their unwanted, teen pregnancy. There are always more ways than one to look at things.
I used to listen to these so called Politicians on the radio saying how bad it would be if we voted yes to abortion - I wondered how many had eaten an egg with their breakfast - is that abortion - it could have been a chick if they had not devoured it? Another way of looking at the same thing - but we are not so sensitive about animals as we are about people.
Yet we, the public, do not get a say on crime and punishment, it is a decision that is left to the silver spoon fed rich and cushioned few with no bloody idea of the hurt and pain that is caused to people and families because of the lack of a fair and firm justice system. One that is not full of namby pamby soppy souls who are out of touch with reality and want to save everyone and convert them to whatever !!.
The thing is - you have to be prepared to see the situation from all sides:
You as each person affected by the situation, and that is hard for most mindsets.
I believe that we are all entitled to our opinions, beliefs, morals, values and everything else.
But the main thing we should be entitled to is to be Protected against the non-conformists who Rape, Murder, and commit other seriously unacceptable crimes.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Julie
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Not for one second decrying prison. If they are locked up they cant do harm to those outside! However, many people do not empathise, therefore do not see crime as hurting others. My sister's very middle class, good income, friend shop lifts for the thrill. She isnt hurting anyone, she is not stealing, the shops dont miss out they claim on the insurance. She fails to grasp that each time she takes something, she is increasing the insurance claim the shop must make, leading to their insurance premiums increasing until someone is made redundant to cover the costs.
The point esculates in bigger crimes, from the chap who never considers the psychological damage he does by pointing a shot gun at an unarmed post office worker, to the one in permanent denial that he raped his victim - she was just being coy when she said no. etc. etc.
The idea of prison terrifies me, yet is not the reason I am honest. Thats in built conscience. I do know of people who are able to justify, or to deny their responsibility when things happen.
I dont know the answers.
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Julie : stoning is barbaric even a murderer deserves dignity. Otherwise we as the onlookers are as bad.
Stoning is also practised on women who have babies out of childbirth. In one case the victim was raped! This has been an ongoing case regularly broadcast on radio 4.
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Hello Russ,
Sorry to stir your emotions here - and thank you so much for sharing that important stance, the truth is what you describe - and that is what people do not want to hear or see, the hurt, the love, the fact that some people will not change.
I have also felt what you describe, and been judged and victimised because of having a relative of mine do time, and have their name in the paper for being involved in a small way in a bank robbery in the 1950's.
Crime will always be with us, there will always be rich and poor people, and wealth will always be distributed unfairly, thats life.
The hurt and love that we feel for family members caught up in the system is not easy to bear, and mixed emotions well up inside us all - We cannot live life for our loved ones, we can not change them, all we can do is try to understand them and their situation, and this you have done.
Family are strange - I used to feel that I didn't belong in mine, that I was different, and it was always a fight to be liked and loved. Parents never backed me up in decisions on career, friendships (girls and boys 11-16) or partnerships, and were always negative and sometimes quite nasty. :'(
It was only inrecent years that I was sharing a couple of stories with a lovely lady I met in Dublin.
"You were born into the wrong family" she said,
"If you had been my dads daughter he would have loved you to go into art and encouraged you all the way, dad was always wanting us to do that but none of us were artistic".
Then I realised, all my life I had tried to please my family and do what they wanted me to do, act like they wanted me to act, and that was not me - maybe I was born into the wrong family - I did not have to be what they wanted to be - I could be myself - unique - different - individual.
As mentioned elsewhere
You cannot choose your family, but you can choose whether to have them in your life or not.
This is the way I have dealt successfully with my problem family members.
I do not get on with my Mother or Sister, they have hurt me in the past.
So I chose a few years ago to tell them that I do not want to see them again, and that they are welcome to believe what they like, but their thoughts and words will not affect me, as they are no longer a part of my life. :D
I am not bitter or twisted - just without the grief they cause with their opinions and words now. I still love them, but do not need their acceptance or approval, I am my own person and I am not what they think or feel - that is their problem and not mine. ;D
I don't want to lose the thread of this subject, as I believe that it is important that people know what is being planned for the future on this, but at the same time, as James said, it is going to cause some fireworks.
I just hope that getting it off our chests heals our wounds -as often is the case if you share things. :love: ::) ;)
Julie
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Hello Hilarys Mum,
Yes, stoning is barbaric, to us. Its all a culture thing. I do not wish that stoning happens here, but I have been studying what happens in African countries, and Indian, and this is the way they deal with things - but again the system can be as corrupt as ours is - because of religion and its beliefs, it is the women who take the blame in these countries - if your daughter is raped, you have to kill her as she is a shame on your family - this is the situation in some countries - isn't that appalling she was raped for gods sake why is she the problem and not the man.
I have also travelled a bit too.
In Egypt in 1992, I was on a tour bus from the Centre of Cairo the the Pyramids, we stopped at a papyrus factory, when the tour woman asked us over the speaker to look at the children outside the bus. Do not give them money, she said, give them food or pencils but not money.
The children, between 2 and 15 were lined up waiting in rags for us to leave the bus, with their hands outstretched for coins.
None of them were complete.
Some had arms, legs, eyes, hands, missing, others were badly scarredon their faces, some with a foot missing on home made crutches in rags, with no shoes.
You wanted to give them money. A Patch, to stick over the wound and make life better, buy shoes or clothes - but you could not.
Who had maimed these children? THEIR PARENTS - so that you would give them money, the more you give money, the more the parents maim their own children in order to make you give money.
Tell me, why do the parents get away with it?
Because there is no one to stop them.
It is awful to see, I have cried more than once over what I saw that day, and I have told the tale to a lot of people who think that material items and money are more important than love and friendship. I have tried to explain this to my daughter, when she moans that I am not nice because she cannot watch her favourite chanel on tv. She doesn't understand bless her.
I remember when I was little, my dad spent a whole night driving me around the streets of London, showing me the tramps. men and women, old and young, sleeping in doorways, on railway embankments, in cardboard boxes, on back streets in bins, foraging for food, I was 13. It was in the 1970's and I am sure not as bad as it is now.
Dads lesson was to work hard at school and get a job, and don't think that running away to London is a solution to problems as it is only the beginning - it stuck with me, and I did work hard and was never unemployed, when made redundant twice, I would go work for a temp agency until I could find work rather than go on the dole. Some jobs I hated and was treated like sh1t, but I kept at it until the right job came up, I was 16 when I was made redundant twice in two years, we were in a recession then too.
What goes on around the world in different cultures will be difficult for us to take in.
As Westerners, believe me we are the lucky ones at the moment, even though our system is corrupt, and our services are not perfect, we have it easy.
We are so lucky Hilarys mum, we can go out and hug and talk to our piggies, enjoy the fresh air and sleep in our own comfy beds, eat the best of home produced pork and love our animals.
I count my blessings every day - I am still alive and happy and loved.
Julie
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Excellent reading but some strong emotions :o it's too early for me to start on the Beans on Toast, I suffered for my over eating yesterday!! ::) Anyway, I keep reading these posts and still wounder what the solution is ??? I then realised I have been a "do goodder" a lot of jobs have involved me working with ex offenders, a lot of them perpetual offenders but I enjoyed the jobs. The government set up schemes to make it look like they are doing something towards reducing crime!!! Jobs are created, and the government collect statistics, often not really wanting the scheme to work then they can put their money somewhere else (Duck Houses!!)I worked with prolific offenders and treated them as I would anyone else, a chat, a laugh and respect, I don't think for one minute I changed their offending habits!!!
A lot of offenders get credibility and status from offending, as well as other more obvious rewards. Not sure how we can change things other than to give them all something worthwile to do. Community service is good, it can cream off a few to not offend again, I know of some cases who have gone into rewarding jobs, but, there will always be bad apples!!!! I would love to see more help for victims, crime certainly does pay!!!
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P.S totaly against the death penalty!!!
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Sandy I'm so glad you said that.I was beginning to think you had all joined the "hang em and flog em " brigade. I just wanted to say that most states in U.SA have the death penalty and it does not affect the incident of murder one iota.In fact some sociopaths commit murder so that the police will kill them in a shoot out, thus preventing "Suicide". I see that this is a very emotive subject, too big to be settled here but it is worth remembering that prisons are not meant to be punitive. They are supposed to get the dangerous off the street, to protect the public. Too often they are used as asylums for the mentally ill, who should not be in prison anyway.
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Nothing like what you have all been talking about but I had my 9 year old granddaughter staying for 2 weeks this month. She is moody, talks back all the time and expects to get what she wants. None of her cheek worked on me as I brought up three sons and quite a few foster children. I was shocked at how she thought it was OK to talk to us the way she did and I told her that even today I would not speak back to my mother or any adult the way she was talking to us.If looks could kill I would be well gone. Telling one of the women i work with she went on to say that her husband is a school janitor and is scared at work, the children are ages 5-11 what does that tell you. I know my son does not give in to my granddaughter and as he says life is difficult some days due to the way she behaves but all the kids around him seem to be the same. School teachers suffering with stress was unheard of in my day. if we cannot teach children how to behave and respect others and turn them into law abiding adults then its no wonder we are in such a mess today. I think parents are struggling with lack of time and money and family life has gone as we knew it. As for the law, well thats a joke. You get longer in jail for stealing from the government than you do for killing someone. These sick people who hurt children should be put down. >:(
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Hiya - I agree
Most states in the USA have the death penalty
Most states in the USA also let any tom dick or harry have a gun and ammo
Most states in the USA have getto problems and escalated drug and mafia type problems
Most states in the USA have populations that live in "Disneyland" and believe it is reality.
They dress like stars in the latest fashion, worship Victoria Beckham and other latest trendsetters and only have to worry about that one single hair that is out of place, and where they are going tonight, and who they might see who is famous, and so on and so on as is the American lifestyle in some cases.
It doesn't bring down the crime rate because they will also be lots of people who love to commit crime, just as we love animals.
I don't believe there is a solution, one answer, to this problem - it is too wide.
What is the worrying thing is that the planners of the future see what is stated in the initial statement, and I am aware that there are a lot of different ways of looking at this problem, but how will it affect the people of the UK and Ireland if we have no prison, just councelling.
We have many an alcoholic or drug addict that has had lots of councelling but will never be able to break their habit - they do not have the willpower or the waywithall to stop it - because of their experiences of life and how it has affected them.
We are all a total of our lifes experiences, and how we behave usually reflects how we have handled the journey of life.
Most of us try our best to comply with social norms and be accepted into society, unfortunatly there is always a percentage that will not -
It is this percentage that we as the general public, who pay to have a system, should have input in the handling of in the future, otherwise they will always be out on the streets, and recruiting more people to do as they do.
I remember an old man in the local pub saying "I hate them knackers - they dont pay any tax. ( Knackers are an irish reference to Gypsys or travellers) I used to teach them.
I told him he was wrong - everyone pays tax every day - a packet of cigs, a bottle of milk - everything you buy has tax on it - so everyone contributes, working or not, to the upkeep and running of the country.
Its just how we see it - from our perspective!
Julie
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Mexico City would be a good example of a lawless society, people are murdered and raped on the street on a daily basis and nothing gets done - police are too busy looking after the big business folk, and moving money, crime is ignored.
I'm afraid it's coming to this in Scotland :( There was a case a few weeks ago of a girl raped in broad daylight in an attack that went on for hours (think it was Edinburgh) and no-one helped. Murders, gun crime, human trafficing, it's all going on right under our noses.
IMO the only way to stop this is to provide a REAL detterent. Why not make prisons horrible places again ? Take away the sky tv, pool tables and university degrees and give inmates a reason NOT to want to go back - THEY ARE CRIMINALS ! They've been proven guilty and should have punishment, not a better life than some of the law abiding population. I remember a case, not that long ago where prisoners were suing a jail for infringing on their human rights by getting them off drugs - the prison settled out of court!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where's the sense in that ???
As for rapists and child abusers, I could say A LOT on the subject, but will limit myself to this - NO SECOND CHANCE ! Chemical castration should be manditory, it's a sickness and as such, should be treated.
Bringing back the death sentance, although contraversal, would certainly reduce the overcrowding in jails and reduce the amount of public money which is taken away from schools, hospitals, police, army etc.
Why should the innocent suffer while the guilty live the high life (at OUR expense) ::)
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Okay being devil adovcate here,
IF you make prison horrible / people suffer for their crime they have comitted then they have a case for Human rights agaist you.
btw i think all serious crimes people should be put on an uninhabited island netured /castraded and left to sort them self out the way they want to and not effect 'normal people' but that then comes down to the fine line who is right in the crimes or did it didn't do it etc so my plan is good in theory but no good in the real world.
Linz
the death penalty is only as good as the witness and confictions agaist the person !
A good social experiment would be to create a crime convict the 'do-er' of the crime and put them to the death penalty only to find in the future that new evidence came to light showing that the 'do-er' was innocent a year later of the death penalty see how the jury reacts to the new light that the person didn't need to dye.
I like the principle of social experiments but it is highly contraversal to implement in the real world.
(on a different note i watch a program where people had to get the subject to answere simple questions until they got one wrong and then would send an electric pluse to them, but each time the electric pluse current was increase if the answer was wrong, what they didn't now was the person was accually a recording and not real, but only 1 out of about 10 people stop the experiment as they wheren't happy with the sound of the subject voice. the other 9 went on to 'kill' the person as they increase the voltage to the highest it could go, as they carried the blaim on to the official scientist in charge of the experiment)
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Siberian Salt Mines ;) There as many reasons why people commit crime, some possibley genetic, some due to conditioning and some buy chance. All those who have children, brothers sisters aunts uncles etc, given the same gene pool, the same/similar upbringing, some willcommit crimes while the rest of thier family would never even think of crime as a way of life.
I can think of at least one women, homeless, her children taken away and on illicit drugs, she was froma very weathy background, a dancer and an artist, married to a man who beat her but was an upright hardworking man to others, took to drugs to cope with her fake life, skull fractured so left the family home with her children, got in wih a charmer and good looking drug dealer who never paid the rent, took all her money, kept her topped up with drugs, made her pregnant and got her evicted, got the children put into care as he was suspected of grooming them into prostitution, then living in a van and baby eventualy being taken for adoption. THe children went back to thier father who had an arranged marrage with some women from abroad but in fact would be unapid labour and, ended up dealing to get money to treat her children who visited her in a homeless unit and becomming daily more and more vulnerale due to an eating disorder. She gave me a very small drawing she had done, not much left from her once affluent life, she smiled and said to me (no offence intended here!) my baby comes t visit in a football strip, I would have never put him in that, my parents are teminaly ill so i will inherit there big house and he would have had a middle class upbringing rather than on the rough inner city estate he is on now" A lesson to be learned but too late!
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Chain gangs to fix all these holes in the roads.
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Hard labour should definately be considered. Prisons are far too soft these days. They are supposed to be "secure units" but yet they have bigger drug problems than some city's - why????? Some one aint doing their jobs?
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I think I've somehow ended up on the forum for the daily mail?!!
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lol
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Fear and helplessness - a scary combination.
I think prison isn't the deterrant it should be but on the other hand, shoudl we not also be trying to rehabilitate people who end up in jail. Unless we plan for them never to be released?
There are a lot of folk in jail who are just sad - mentally ill, drug addicts, mentally handicapped. Society had failed them. I do think some "tough love" is the answer though and the "human rights" stuff has gone too far. If you want rights, you have to take responsibility and too many don't.
But woudl you want to be the hangman?
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Prison: shut in 24/7. Shut in with people who I may not particularly get on with. Forced to use a bucket at night. No privacy. Sometimes locked in that small space for long periods. Not able to walk outside. Bars, locks, doors. No freedom. Dont care if its styled like the Ritz, if freedom is removed, doors are locked, no privacy. Removing freedom to come and go, kept away from loved ones surely that in itself is the worst of all punishments.
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They are not meant to be a holiday camp! What about the people some of these people have injured or killed that don't have access to movement - however restrictive.What about the famiilies that can only visit a grave and not a prison. Prison is not the answer for every one but these cold hearted murderers and child abusers should loose every privelage known to man. I do not agree with the death sentence but I do think that prisons are a breeding ground for further offending.
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Cant argue with your point of view. However still feel that if they are removed from society further punishment is not particularly positive.
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Surely the punishment should fit the crime? If you take a life, should you not give up your own - I mean lifetime incarceration not the death penalty. Although I'm sure if someone dear to me was murdered I would want the murderer kileed, but that's revenge not justice.
Jeez, the rain's just come on and it's tipping it. It was sunny five minutes ago when I was outside. A great Scottish summer!
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Prison: shut in 24/7. Shut in with people who I may not particularly get on with. Forced to use a bucket at night. No privacy. Sometimes locked in that small space for long periods. Not able to walk outside. Bars, locks, doors. No freedom. Dont care if its styled like the Ritz, if freedom is removed, doors are locked, no privacy. Removing freedom to come and go, kept away from loved ones surely that in itself is the worst of all punishments.
And still the offenders come back for more! So does it work?
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Probably not - then again how many times as a child were you punished for something, only to do it again as soon as the chance came. I certainly did as a teenager, despite a very victorian father.
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To Hilarys Mum
You brave woman you :o
All my Victorian Dad had to say to me was "Hey You" and I would be in floods of tears.
When I was 18 all my friends went to the Disco until 2am -
I had to be on the 10.30 bus home or grounded for a month ::)
The Disco started at 10 - :'(
I guess thats why I am so good at Ice skating and not so great at dancing ;D ;D ;D
Julie
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My dad never told me off,my mum did but I respected them too much and felt too guilty to do anything wrong.
Depending on the type of crime, don't really think convicted or caught criminals actually think of the punishment too much, a bit like me not thinking about getting fatter when I tuck into loads of crisps. If you have a "talent" for burglary or car theft and you don't get caught and live well off the proceeds then, you will take your chance. In violent crimes I doubt very much if someone pulls a knife out that they think "Oh, not going to use this as I may get put into prison and thats horrid" they just are compelled to use the knife. I think (only my view) that we all could be criminals but are able to stop ourselves, I have been in some hairy situations where I could have defended myself and hit back however ineffective that would have been but, I am a calm person for whatever reason and am able to rationalise things very quickly so would not retaliate, even when someone cuts you up on a car or pushes you in a crowd... >:(
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To Hilarys Mum
You brave woman you :o
All my Victorian Dad had to say to me was "Hey You" and I would be in floods of tears.
Julie
My Dad was a Pipe Major in a well known Scottish Regiment and he had my sister and I well under control. He never ever hit us, but we wouldn't have ever thought of stepping out of line and had a 10.30 deadline too - until i got engaged then it was extended to 11pm!!!!! I don't think it did me any harm except my childhood was probably a little too sheltered.
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My childhood was not sheltered, we used to have psychicatric patiants to tea on weekends, Nurses from different countries as lodgers, tips to the "Looney Bin" sorry not PC and a very strange foster sister!!!!
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Ops, when I said trips to the psychiatric unit, meant mum was a nurse there so used to visit to pick her up with my dad, go to Fates, parties, cinema and hairdressers there as it was huge...didn't do me any harm? :sausage: :banana: :banana:
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That's your opinion Sandy ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
(only joking - just couldn't resist ;D Julie
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Ummmmmmmmmmm how did that sausage smiley get in with the bananas? Maybe I should keep my glasses by the computer ;D
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My Dad was a Pipe Major in a well known Scottish Regiment and he had my sister and I well under control. He never ever hit us, but we wouldn't have ever thought of stepping out of line and had a 10.30 deadline too - until i got engaged then it was extended to 11pm!!!!! I don't think it did me any harm except my childhood was probably a little too sheltered.
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I agree with the last line - Too Sheltered - I was so naive, and I took a lot of knocks and got taken for a lot of rides over time because of it :'( :'(
Mum always told me you should never lie, so I never did ::) I was an only child for most of my life so didn't have anyone else to discuss things with at home - so parents word was rule etc.
What she forgot to tell me is that not everyone else lived by this rule ::)
So there I goes believing everything people tells me for years :'( :'(
Parents have a lot to answer for sometimes - and even when they have done their very best, they often make unforseen mistakes that can hurt and mislead kids into being very insecure and unconfident. I was wrapped in cotton wool and not told the truth of people and how they behave, believing everyone was nice and wouldn't harm you.
Once I left home I had a very hard trip into reality - I am not doing the same with my little girl - shes going to be prepared, tough and ready to deal with stuff, and know the truth.
Julie
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I agree, Julie. I was so naive - didn't have my first date until I was 17 - and it was a blind one as my friends took pity on me. I went with him for 6 months then got bored although everyone thought we were going to get engaged and married. I think I had a lucky escape as years later I found out he had run off with his secretary and left his wife of 15 years and two kids. Both my kids went away to uni at 17, I insisted on them going away so tehy would learn to stand on their own feet and make their own mistakes. It worked and they are great adults to have around me. Especially now I've moved closer to them. The only thing I regret is their Dad and Stepdad not seeing the success they have made of their lives.
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I know the death penalty is an imotive subject...... however I feel if it is only passed in the most severe cases then it should be used;
for exmple
women kills husband
defence claim, he had beaten her for years and she snapped,
police claim she did it for insurance money 1 million quid
sentance ... life behind bars
Stephan ??? (cant remember his last name)
supposed to have killed a young girl, later found innocent
he had learning difficulties, life behind bars
Fred and rosemary west
Total nut case's, killed not only young women, but also their own children
No defence against such crimes
Peter sutcliff
Killed many young women, again total nutter
Ian Braidy, Myra hindley
tourched and killed young children and tapped what they did
No defence, again total nutters
If common sence is used when sentancing and people have killed more than once and enjoyed the crimes they have commited, then how can they be rehabilitated?
As I said before some people are just plain BAD. They have no compassion and feed on the fear and pain of their victims and each crime becomes worse and worse. They plan how to make the next crime worse and evolve with each murder and scream of their victims.
To be honest hangimg would be too good for people like this!
I think the way to look at it is if someone torchered your child for hours, raped, beat and satanically cut them up, what would you want to happen to them?
If you knew your child had done the above to someone, how would you feel?
For me it would be the same answer, I would want them dead! I love my children and would die defending them, however if they turned into something evil....................
And to an earlier question, YES I could quite easily be the hangman if these people had hurt me or mine!
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Not against the death penalty but - once they are dead punishment ends. If they are incarcerated for life and it means life, no matter how comfy the prison, all hope goes. Better punishment imho.
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HM
it costs more to keep these animals behind bars than most people earn. they are behind bars yes, but they live in solitry because other inmates might harm them, or be harmed by them. they have colour tv !!! own toilet!!
my father in law was a prison officer and 'looked after' some of the worst, they have no concept of punishment and saw it as another extention of their personality still being in the limelight and writen about. they feed off the publicity of their notariaty.
they do understand what they did was wrong, and publicity is their substitute for not being able to kill again.
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Not only is prison "home" for some people it is a type of security!!! to be looked after, bills paid, food found etc etc. I too used to sometimes have to visit young offenders units, horrid places, a lot of young people commit suicide due to peer pressure, I also worked in a remand unit, most of the 12 people in it were sex offenders, some have mental health problems (can't spell the name where people change personalities!) so their medication was monitored to prevent them offending. I do not like "playing God" even with those totally evil people, they should face everyday being reminded of what scum they are.I believe prisons should be very restricted places, clean, airy but without the extra comforts afforded to outside life and that in some way, all prisoners earn their keep, if it's only keeping the prison clean and painted. Not sure if it would be a good idea or not to deport the worse to "Alcatraz" type environment and even that would give some prisoners that extra status in life!!!!
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Agree Sandy
I lived with a schitzophrenic for a while and they can be very dangerous - at the time I did not know how ill the person was, but on reflection my life was in danger on more than one occasion - and since I believe in Guardian Angels as I am sure I should not be here - but thats another story.
A lot of people with serious problems are on medication and living happily at home - but what if one day they forget to take it? You cannot control some on medication - a lot of people have gone into schools and shot and killed several people, and caused others trauma and nightmares for the rest oftheir lives - some only 4 year olds who have seen their teachers shot in front of them, and their classmates - the gunmen often were on medication for schitzophrenia and depression.
Scary Scary - I have been involved and tried to help some sufferers, and one in particular used to say to me "Don't try to understand me Julie - you will never understand me" the only true words he ever spoke.
Julie