The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Food & crafts => Food processing => Topic started by: shygirl on July 14, 2013, 09:35:17 pm
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im terrible at making bread. i tried a new recipe today with great hope but same old results.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/bread (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/bread)
the problem i have is it always rises great the first time but second time it doesnt. today it even seemed to shrink as there were wrinkles on the dough. it is still edible once cooked but isnt as big a loaf as it should be, and is quite heavy in weight and texture. its quite strong in taste too which i guess is down too it being too dense.
i thought maybe our house was too cold hence why it never rose very well but today was really warm so no excuses.
any ideas as we love making it but i dont know how to make it taste better.
thanks
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I depend on my breadmaker for most of my loaves and I have to say, it is extraordinarily good at making basic loaves. However, I have made hand made bread many times over the years and I have to say practice is the answer! The recipe you have used is by Paul Hollywood, and I use his recipes more than others as I find the results consistent. It may be just down to the heat in your kitchen, or over proving first time around and exhausting the yeast. I am sure you will enjoy the results anyway! If at first you don't succeed...
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I only managed to start making consistently good bread when I started using fresh yeast, before that I found it very dispiriting. Mind you ive had to subscribe mail order to get the fresh yeast and it isn't cheap (altho you get loads).
I like the Bertinet bakery books, haven't had a failure yet with them and the books come with DVDs too.
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I'm not sure why you are getting this problem :( Shygirl I'm sure someone more experienced that me will come along with and explanation. AHHH I see someone has....
I'm very much a novice at bread making and I had lots of disasters but I did find a 'sponge' bread recipe that seems to work -though we never get to eat it 'fresh' I make it up through the day and cook them in the evening when the oven is then on, I make 4 loaves at a time and freeze them.
If you want the recipe I use email me.
I have found a fantastic soft roll recipe which are just like the ones from the supermarket.
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over proving first time around and exhausting the yeast.
does that mean we overkneaded it or left it to rise too long the first time?
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I am not too good at diagnosing afterwards I am afraid! I know when I see it in my loaves, but that is after having years of mixed results! My advice to you wouldbe to take notes of what you did and what happened, then change one thing and measure any improvement. I am pretty much always disappointed with my second rise - it is so difficult to "measure" twice the bulk isn't it?
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It's ages since I made bread (since becoming allergic to gluten :P) but from what I remember, what you're describing can come from insufficient kneading, leaving it to rise for too long the first time, and also problems with the yeast.
Are you using dried or fresh?
What are you doing to 'activate' it?
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we are using dried yeast. today was the fast acting one. (allinsons)
once wev kneaded it the first time, we cover it with oiled clingfilm for about an hour. this stage rises well. then we knead it again with a bit of flour, shape it and rest it again for an hour. this time it doesnt rise much.
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Well, for what it's worth:
I activate the yeast first, ie get it started, with a bit of sugar and some warm water.
I don't knead the second time, just 'knock it down', possible a couple of light kneads to distribute the gases.
Also, even a bit of added flour for kneading can make it too dry, which limits rising.
It's all trial and error, not suggesting these will work, just things to try.
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thanks jaykay. today was the first time we didnt put the yeast in sugar/water.
we will have another shot tomorrow...
sometimes i wish i had spent more time cooking with my mother than riding ponies , lol, thankgod for youtube :excited:
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Is it white or wholemeal bread you are making? Are you putting it in loaf tins or on a tray. Wholemeal has a tendency to come out too heavy for various reasons, including as jaykay says adding too much flour to the board you are working on. The precise amount of water used is also crucial, and the miller - different flours have different characteristics. Make sure your flour is not past it's sell-by-date, or the yeast. Adding a 1/4 teaspoon of Vitamin C powder (the kind without added zinc) helps with the rise, but is hard to get as certain folk use it to cut drugs apparently.
Using loaf tins helps the second rising to work better as it supports the shape. Also be very careful not to bang the tins anywhere once the bread has risen, such as when you put them in the oven - this would cause the bread to flop.
I use a breadmaker now since we moved to our smallholding as our house is too cold to get a good rise with handmade dough. I tried putting it near the fire but there was always a draft on one side. I tried putting it on the boiler but it got cold coming down the corridor so tended to flump.
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I know the feeling and had a couple of years of disappointing loaves. I now find that this mix give a really good white loaf (one big bloomer or two tin loaves). I use the breadmaker to make the dough with 600g flour, 360 ml tepid water, 1 tsp salt, 1 tsp sugar, 1 sachet yeast, 1 oz lard. Then I knock this back and knead it again. Previously I was always a bit scared to do this second kneading properly (it seemed a waste to get rid of all that "rising") but it really is part of the key to the success. Then into the oven for 35-40 mins.
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I se a similar method to jaykay and use the allinsons yeast and generally get good results. I try to warm everything that will touch the yeast, the bowl it is mixed in, the flour etc. The 1st knead is important, you want to be able to stretch out the dough a good foot or more, then leave to rise somewhere warmish. I try to make the mix as wet as I can, and add flour to get it right as I knead. You want it so that it's only just not sticking to your hands, experience will help you with this. Then I knock back and only leave to rise again while the oven heats up. It is a lot denser than shop bread, but that's cos they put all manner of stuff in it to make it all fluffy like that.
HTH
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YIPPEE i have done it! for the first time ever, iv made bread that would not smash a window!
the problem was my dough was too dry. we did have a couple that dropped when i tried to score the top before baking, dont know how to solve that problem, but if i dont touch it and just bake it, it comes out perfect, light and fluffy.
only technical hitch is im not keen on the flavour, maybe more salt would help. maybe i will get used to it.
we used morrisons strong white bread flour, and vegetable oil instead of butter.
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YIPPEE i have done it! for the first time ever, iv made bread that would not smash a window!
the problem was my dough was too dry. we did have a couple that dropped when i tried to score the top before baking, dont know how to solve that problem, but if i dont touch it and just bake it, it comes out perfect, light and fluffy.
only technical hitch is im not keen on the flavour, maybe more salt would help. maybe i will get used to it.
we used morrisons strong white bread flour, and vegetable oil instead of butter.
Llongyfarchiadau !
Congratulations, you'll never go back now
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:excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited: :excited:
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Excellent! Practise makes perfect!
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Well Done! I find the key to good quality bread is the best flour you can and always use oil and not butter. It is also really important to not have the mixture to dry with wholemeal i always use a bit more water than recommended. Have you ever tried wessex mill flour it is superb.
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any tips for flavour? - our palette is used to supermarket bread so although the texture and appearance was lovely, it had an odd flavour.
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Well done that you got a reasonable loaf. :thumbsup:
What sort of worksurface are you kneading on? I ask because the man who did our kitchen tiles was a baker for 20 years. I was making bread on my granite worksurface and he said that would always be too cold. Since I have started kneading on the wooden worktop the outcome has been much better.
Granite for pastry (it likes the cold) wood for bread as the cold stops the yeast from rising
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Well Done! I find the key to good quality bread is the best flour you can and always use oil and not butter. It is also really important to not have the mixture to dry with wholemeal i always use a bit more water than recommended. Have you ever tried wessex mill flour it is superb.
Seconded :thumbsup: for Wessex Mill flour, and using the best you can find.
Other good millers are Marriages, Doves Farm and Allinsons.
For the different taste of homemade bread - you will soon come to love it and wonder how you had eaten so much cotton wool for so long :roflanim: For a really different taste, try sourdough bread. I find it complicated to make but you can buy it - the Co-op here sells it.
Good tip about kneading on a wooden surface Bionic. Way back when my OH was in the RAF, every married quarter included a huge wooden kneading board in the kitchen utensils. I think most folk thought they were archaic but mine was used every couple of days.
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I use Shipton Mill Flour which I find to make the best bread....although our friend in the village uses Lidl bread flour and a breadmaker and makes a fantastically light loaf :sunshine:
I use a non stick board for kneading
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we are using a wooden surface to knead. we are trying different flours at moment.
the loaf stayed fresh for ages too but i just couldnt stand the flavour. shame
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Strange about the flavour. Did you add any flavoured ingredients to it?
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no, i dont think i used enough salt. maybe there was too much yeast as i only have big scales, it hard to be accurate with tiny amounts. it was also brownish in colour even though we used morrisons strong white flour.
digital scales are maybe in order.
we will try again, but first my daughter wants to make pizza dough......how come all this home cooking is never diet food? bread, pizza, icecream :innocent: :innocent:
:excited:
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I use spoon measures for small amounts, so a 2lb loaf gets 2 t spoons of salt and 2 of a yeast with 1 of sugar for the yeast starter.
One thing to bear in mind, homemade bread will taste different, and stronger, than shop bread, simply cos it's got more flour in it. Most store bread is fresh air, which is pretty tasteless.
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Yes, it does sound like you need some digital scales but I also do as Mike has said i.e. use spoon measures for the small amounts and it works out fine
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Bread needs salt to help it stay risen, I use 1.5 level teaspoons per 1kg of flour. It is also useful to put either ice cubes or water in a tray in the bottom of the oven when baking. The steam allows the bread to rise in the heat before the crust sets. Careful when opening the oven though, as there will be clouds of steam come out.
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Well done for the fluffy loaf! :thumbsup:
I actually find that adding double the salt amount of any bread recipe makes it a lot tastier. I admit I am a bit of a savoury junky (I can;t stand sweets) so maybe you want to experiment with adding extra salt in samll increments, e.g. if the suggested amount is 2 tsp, try 2.5 or 3 tsp next time.
I agree with FW, though: sourdough bread tastes the best by far! It's not really that difficiult to make, but quite 'fiddly' as you need to plan for several extra steps.
The best bread book I have come across is the River Cottage bread handbook. It has a great first section explaining exactly what happens in each step of breadmaking, what reacts with what to result in what, so you get a proper understanding of your own about how it works, which then allows you to work out better what went wrong when it does.