The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: country soul on December 06, 2012, 07:02:06 pm
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my current employment contract is coming to an end and I'm considering my next move which may be geographical as well as work related.
I long thought of moving and have always liked Wales as a holiday destination,but moving there?
I have looked at small holdings in Pembs /Carms on the net and it looks like I'd get more for my money than the 7 acres I currently have.
Has anyone made such a move and what were your experiences, for instance did you find a sense of community conducive to smallholding.
Any thoughts welcome
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Hope you get positive responses .... I am moving into smallholding in Carmathenshire in early Jan!
Linda
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Do you speak Welsh? It's not the practicalities of day-to-day communication but the fact that many jobs in local government and education want Welsh speakers which could be limiting if you or partner needs a "proper" job.
I've been visiting relatives in Pembs for over 30 years and have a lot of friends there. People are very friendly and hugely helpful though it is said that Welsh doesnt have a word that expresses the urgency of the spanish manăna!
But it is very remote. It's more than 4 hours drive from London and longer to Manchester. The intercity trains stop at Swansea and the local lines are slow. There is no airport nearer than Cardiff. The main roads are dramatically better than they were but its slow after St Clears. But my bigger concern is the local economy. Pembrokeshire was one of the last places to see huge house price inflation as English incomers saw the county as cheap. I think 2012 was a worse year for tourism than 2011, so there's a lot less money about.
There's now a vast amount of houses for sale judging by the estate agent boards. I think prices have dropped but it still seems expensive to me compared to the North of England or the South-west.
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Well I only moved here (Carms) at the end of March (from E. anglia, & like you 'cos I could get more for my limited budget).
I still don't know many people, but so far I've found folks very welcoming, and my farmer neighbour is always very helpful. I've joined the local veg growing circle (as I'm an absolute beginner) and they're very good.
Come to think of it most of the neighbours and people I've met are incomers too - I still don't know many welsh people.
The worst experience I've had is the weather - and the locals assure me that it's not usually this wet.
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:wave: :wave: :wave:
Nearly 4 years since we moved here .... Powys. Live in a small, scattered rural hamlet. Four miles from the nearest village. I can't say whether it is the same everywhere in Wales but the sense of community here is really special. My "neighbours" are all that live in a 5 mile radius. Everyone knows everyone .... most are related ;D and we all help each other as much as we can. We were totally welcomed here and although visitors talk about us being "isolated" it is not the case at all. In the town, neighbours hardly managed a smile and wave at each other, let alone being willing to help each other. Here, we are never alone. If we are snowed in we all ring each other and check we have food, collect post, shop for each other etc. and the same if anyone is ill. Christmas is a time for a little party and giving gifts, usually hand-made. We could not believe how different life is here and would never return to the town. I think it's maybe like going back in time to how you imagine communities used to be.
[size=78%] Welsh language not a problem where we live though some of my neighbours are first language speakers. Neighbours told my children they must think of themselves as Welsh now and same has been said to us .... "You can't say now that you are not Welsh".[/size]
[size=78%]Pace of life is slower and yes nothing gets done in a hurry. You may think that people have forgotten but they do turn up albeit a year later [/size] :roflanim: .
Do it !!!!!!!
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I agree inthehills, (tho I am in Scotland). People say - how can you live up on the hill with no visible neighbours, and I say, well my neighbours are just round the hill and unlike in the city, I know them, I trust them and we know we would be able to ask each other for any help we needed.
And in the shop, it may take a little while to get to the front of the queue cos of the chatting, but when you do, it will be your turn for a chat!
I reckon the combination of a 1950s community spirit and 2012 communication technology to make life easier is pretty hard to beat!
I also love the 'old boys' I have met, who love their vintage machinery and whatever question you have, they always know of someone (usually another lovely old boy) who can solve it (need a ram, need some small bale straw whatever it is - they are worth their weight in gold!)
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"Probably the Best Country in the World".....is what it says on the front of my T-shirt....and it is :thumbsup: . We moved here (Pembs/Carms border) nearly 5 years ago and its just beautiful. People are friendly and helpful, stunning scenery and a wonderful much slower pace of life in general. Everyone has time for you and even people you've never met before will chat to you like old friends even if you're just waiting in a queue in the Post Office. We've never even been back over that bridge :relief: .
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We moved to Carmarthenshire 2 years ago and love it.
We live in a fabulous secluded valley but only 15 miles from the end of the M4 so we actually think road communication is pretty good.
see a page from our blog about our valley here
http://lizburton.co.uk/wordpress/everyday-stuff/a-glorious-evening-in-may/ (http://lizburton.co.uk/wordpress/everyday-stuff/a-glorious-evening-in-may/)
As someone else has pointed out it is quite a Welsh speaking area and you will require it for many jobs.
How you get on in any community is down to how you treat other people and interact. If you're ever house hunting/looking feel free to drop in to ask any questions.
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All the above comments could apply to our village....except for the Welsh laguage substitute German.
The big advatage of here is that properties start in the HUNDREDS , most are in the THOUSANDS but hardly any (except the ewly renovated or new) in the hundred thousands.
living costs are cheap too, the roads are great. 2/3 hours to Prague/Berlin. 12 hours to Calais. (empty m-way this side too)
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We moved to Carmarthenshire last Feb and apart from the weather I love it. Its been very wet and even though its known for the rain here the locals say this year has been very unusual.
We moved from the Dorset/Hants borders because we couldn't afford land where we were. Luckily neither of us need to work these days which is just as well as I wouldn't fancy my chances against the Welsh speakers. I guess it might depend on what you do. There seems to be plenty of work for carpenters/builders/electricians etc
Old friends who have visited think we are very remote and in terms of where we used to live I agree with them but I wouldn't want to go back. The clean air, fantastic views amd the chance to have a bit of land are worth it.
Sally
As lachlanandmarcus has said because of 2012 communication you don't feel cut off. We have reliable internet and I do a lot of shopping on line, both weekly groceries and anything else. Its just as cheap to have things delivered as it is to use the car.
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2012 communication - "you don't feel cut off".
We live in a very isolated area too and English is not the local language - it would be easy to watch UK TV or listen to the radio and live in a bit of a bubble. Even this forum means for example that I know more about the UK weather than my own. Our TV is set up to watch BBC Look East news so our bubble has floated 600 km
I try and make sure I read the local news etc but 2012 communication may have it's pros and cons when living in Wales, Germany or France.
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After almost 4 years we can safely say we are part of the community, all our neighbours are helpful and friendly , and will help you when you need them , for instance two days ago found I had a flat tyre on the car so I called in on one of our neighbouring farms and he dropped what he was doing ,got his compressor out and got me fixed, another one will say " we hope you're coming to the quiznight ,we've got you tickets" ( so you have no choice in the matter)
As the others have said, this year has been wet , when the sunshines splitting the stones it's lovely....Go for it.
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After almost 4 years we can safely say we are part of the community, all our neighbours are helpful and friendly , and will help you when you need them , for instance two days ago found I had a flat tyre on the car so I called in on one of our neighbouring farms and he dropped what he was doing ,got his compressor out and got me fixed, another one will say " we hope you're coming to the quiznight ,we've got you tickets" ( so you have no choice in the matter)
As the others have said, this year has been wet , when the sunshines splitting the stones it's lovely....Go for it.
what tizz said!!! ;D The ONLY fly in the ointment is work (finding it). Many families round here are either retired, or 1 works away (as my OH does). The reason Pembrokshire is relatively cheap I think is that its pretty poor commuting territory to any major work centre (city). We chose N wales because at a push we have Brum, Liverpool and Manchester possible. Sort some work first Id say then go for for it - Wales is ALL nice!!!
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Do it..... Do it....
For all of the reasons mentioned above. We are in North Wales as most of our family are in the north west.
The sense of community is brilliant, when we moved in within 24hours we had batch of scones, gooseberry crumble, rhubarb crumble (all homemade) and an invite to the pub to meet everyone.....
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Thanks everyone for the positive replies,all very encouraging.
Its certainly food for thought,as a few of you have mentioned work is an issue.We would both like some sort of work but only part time and it need not be high flying.It would be as much about meeting people as earning money.
We would have a healthy budget and may consider buying some where with holiday lets etc.
I am very happy to be remote but my partner does like to shop now and then so that would be another consideration.Your comments are all very inspiring .
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Country soul, your partner can't be any more of a shopaholic than I was (I have boxes of stuff we still haven't unloaded from the move to prove it) However, with a bit of planning a good shopping trip is still possible, just not so often.
Sally
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Yes, we had a good shopping trip at Shrewsbury ...... 3 years ago :roflanim: ...... good job I never liked shopping, and now I go only when really essential.
Most people near to me seem to only shop very locally and make do with that. If shopping was important to you I think you would have to take that into account when choosing your location.
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get used to everything being either padded, fleece lined and wind/water proof :roflanim: :roflanim:
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To quote the comedtn Rhod Gilbert
"I was 12 when I realised I could take my anorak off"
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:roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim:
A new neighbour asked me recently ...... do you own any wellies? ..... :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim: :roflanim: ...... try only own/need wellies. They'll learn.
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I have been following this thread with interest. I was born and brought-up in London and have never lived outside the south-east, but we expect to move away in the next five years. It's just too busy, too frantic and too unfriendly.
We have discussed this off and on for the past couple of years and we have made some reconnaissance trips. But despite our connections Pembrokeshire isn't on the list. Abergavenny area is far more appealing along with the South-west around Exeter and the Yorkshire Dales.
Any supporters of those areas?
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me too Small Farmer.
The thought of having to speak welsh, all that rain and the cost of land made me opt for France. it's a smallholders paradise here in the La Creuse department ( region Limousin) - certainly beats London, Herts, Cambs and Suffolk borders.
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iv been in Scotland for 17 ya res i think if you put some think in to the community you will be fine .I speak to the doctors banks shop all first names .If the post man comes and the tractor is out he will go in and put the letters parcels in the kitchin .If I'm bad i phone the doctor up and he comes dawn gets some eggs etc .The vet will give me a prescription over the phone Ido keep in with the community and we are all equal and work together.I do think you should go for it and live simple and be happey and dont take to much on .
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The thought of having to speak welsh,
You don't have to speak Welsh; the country is bilingual. Just as in any community it's nice to know a few words though.
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Well, I moved from Shepton Mallet to Abergavenny, from there to a small village halfway between Abergavenny & Hereford & from there to Snowdonia in North Wales.
Some of the small villages on the Herefordshire/Monmouthshire border are lovely & friendly - Like Somerset used to be 25 odd years ago.
However, some areas of North Wales are just special. The scenery is fabulous & the people are really friendly & supportive as long as you make an effort to fit in - no different to anywhere else! You don't need to speak welsh although a few every day words are welcomed & classes are available (I did a year of 2 1/2 hours a week for £25). It's a big smallholder area as farming is hard here so most people have land & a job to make ends meet. We have received massive support (new to this life when we moved here) & the sense of community is very strong. Land & property is cheaper of course, which is a bonus!
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The thought of having to speak welsh,
You don't have to speak Welsh; the country is bilingual. Just as in any community it's nice to know a few words though.
No, you have to know a few words, and then carry on learning more of them. It really isn't optional unless you like total silence when you enter the farmers co-op.
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No, you have to know a few words, and then carry on learning more of them. It really isn't optional unless you like total silence when you enter the farmers co-op.
Sorry to disagree; I live in a pretty Welsh speaking area and I only know a few words but there are no issues if you don't speak Welsh. I get on fine with my Welsh speaking neighbours in English although the odd phrase like 'diolch yn fawr' goes a long way.
In fact a lot of people who have lived here all their lives don't speak Welsh. As a whole only around 25% of the population speak Welsh. It's great that the language is alive and kicking and incomers should have respect for it; but it isn't obligatory.
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Living in wales and speaking a bit of welsh is probabley both polite but not essential.As said previousley the Welsh in some areas are bi-lingual and have the option to speak either welsh or English.
Here in France I do not have the option to speak English - BUT to my horror all my old neighbours speak a patois between themselves and only learnt French when they were 7-9 years old at school. They talk to me in french though.
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The thought of having to speak welsh,
You don't have to speak Welsh; the country is bilingual. Just as in any community it's nice to know a few words though.
we nearly moved to wales but was put off about the language and the childrens schooling. in the area we were wanting (north wales) the first language at school was welsh which is a good thing but a bit daunting for a non-welsh speaking child.
i got the impression that the area north of aberaeron was welsh speaking, south less so. the youth in aberaeron certainly chose to speak welsh but were bilingual.
we are in scotland now and the kids are learning french/german. they have never had a gaelic lesson in their lives - big shame.
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In our area of North Wales welsh is definitely the first language. It is what people speak by choice, although almost all can speak english as well. However, everyone I have come across is willing to switch to english without making me feel uncomfortable.
The idea that the people here only speak welsh so that the english can not understand them is so wrong. In fact I have found the opposite. If I walk into a pub (or whatever!) & conversation around the bar (or whatever!) is happening in welsh, I have known them to switch to english so that I am included. Same with the hairdressers (I go here even less frequently than the pub I'll have you know). The general conversation between staff & customers is in welsh, but my stylist switches to english so that I get at least part of the conversation, it's seemless.
It doesn't take much effort on my part to learn a few phrases & that small effort is greeted with great smiles & enthusiasm.
I have to agree with one earlier comment though. There appears to be a bit of a relaxed attitude to time keeping & urgency. Many do things 'just in time' or even later than that. I'm still struggling with this one!
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However, everyone I have come across is willing to switch to english without making me feel uncomfortable.
The general conversation between staff & customers is in welsh, but my stylist switches to english so that I get at least part of the conversation, it's seemless.
It doesn't take much effort on my part to learn a few phrases & that small effort is greeted with great smiles & enthusiasm.
+1
Same with the hairdressers (I go here even less frequently than the pub I'll have you know).
My wife doesn't have that issue; having decided to downsize it is much more economic if I do it; so after purchasing some scissors and watching a few Youtube tutorials i now do it. She hasn't been to the hairdressers for over 18 months and no one has laughed yet (then again I don't know what they might be saying about it in Welsh)!
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Here in Powys, most of my Welsh neighbours speak English now. A couple spoke nothing but Welsh until they went to school. We are on the boundary as far as school admissions go between Welsh and English speaking schools. I had the choice of where to send my children and because my son was nearing High school age when we moved I chose to send them to the English speaking school ..... thought it maybe very difficult for them otherwise. The children are taught welsh as a second language right through school and we can all say basic phrases ..... for politeness. The Welsh language is not embraced by all my Welsh neighbours and some have said that they think it is a waste of time that the children are taught it in school and that government is "pushing" the language. Interesting. ??? A lot of people in this area "swap" between the languages ...... speak a bit in Welsh and then a bit in English. Welsh speaking in this bit of Powys seems to be in "pockets" ..... 4 miles one way mainly Welsh but 4 mile the other English.
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My wife doesn't have that issue; having decided to downsize it is much more economic if I do it; so after purchasing some scissors and watching a few Youtube tutorials i now do it. She hasn't been to the hairdressers for over 18 months and no one has laughed yet (then again I don't know what they might be saying about it in Welsh)!
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Well if you ever move my way I'd gladly let you have a go at mine - having to go to the hairdressers is such a faff. I have never found it to be relaxing like most women. I put it off as long as possible & make the effort about 3 times a year!
I wouldn't trust my OH though. His attention to detail on anything he's not 100% interested in is really bad. I can imagine how bad I would look. Have you seen that spec savers advert with the shepherd shearing his flock?
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The stats on Welsh speaking are a bit out of date but the BBC suggests that 50% speak the language in Carmarthenshire: the numbers are much lower in South Wales. I suppose I have a different perspective. I've visited one part of Pembrokeshire every couple of months for nearly 35 years but I've never lived there. I didn't learn any welsh then because it really didn't matter. But as our English speaking Welsh friends and neighbours put their kids through school gradually it changed so now they mostly speak Welsh amongst themselves. And no matter how nice they are about it it's uncomfortable.
"Little England beyond Wales" was around for a very long time before English incomers started buying cheap property on an industrial scale. I think the Landsker line has long gone but Welsh is a handy way of excluding the incomers and tourists, intentionally or otherwise. So I think my point stands: as a matter of politeness towards your new neighbours you need to learn some "passing the time of day" Welsh, but to understand what's really going on you have to keep on learning. That effort will be really appreciated because people are really friendly even when it's raining and raining.
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Well if you ever move my way I'd gladly let you have a go at mine - having to go to the hairdressers is such a faff. I have never found it to be relaxing like most women. I put it off as long as possible & make the effort about 3 times a year!
I wouldn't trust my OH though. His attention to detail on anything he's not 100% interested in is really bad. I can imagine how bad I would look. Have you seen that spec savers advert with the shepherd shearing his flock?
As often as three times a year? I had my hair cut for our wedding in June 1998 and again for our tenth wedding anniversary. Since then, apart from a friend trimming the ends when she coloured it for me, it hasn't been touched. I do trim my own fringe.
I wouldn't trust my OH either but then he is blind so might cut my throat by mistake. :roflanim:
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Its over 80% welsh first language here in Bala - but I can honestly echo others - folk happily speak in english to me but are over the moon whatever welsh I can manage. 10 year old son is now pretty good after 18 months - he went to a intensive language unit for the first term. He says that the lifestyle benefits outweigh any language difficulties he has gone through. Wales is FANTASTIC for children so much more freedom is the norm - dont let the thought of the language put you off with children - all the incomer childeren I know (lots!!) are doing ace.
If anyone wants to get started with welsh prior to or in anticipation of a move... my OH is learning using the internet (FREE!!!) course - 'Say Something in Welsh' - http://www.saysomethinginwelsh.com/home/ (http://www.saysomethinginwelsh.com/home/) . It is fantastic - he speaks better welsh than some learners here who have been going to class for 2 years!
And as for Haircuts I'm with MGWoM!!! Im currently on a 5 or 6 year cycle - Grow Grow Grow then get it all chopped off (for free!) for the little princess trust (which makes wigs out of long hair for children with hair loss. There, 2 plugs!!!
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From the census results just released
- 19% of the Welsh population aged over three said they were able to speak Welsh
- Able to speak Welsh: 562,016 Not able to speak Welsh: 2,393,825
- Gwynedd has the highest percentage of residents aged three or over who said they can 'speak, read and write in Welsh (65,900 people, 56%)
- Source: Census 2011/ONS
The number of people who speak Welsh has fallen in the past 10 years, according to the 2011 Census.
Figures also suggest Welsh is now a minority language in two of its heartlands, Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion.
It was thought that migration trends might lead to an increase in speakers in less traditional Welsh-speaking areas.
But the census suggests otherwise with just a few counties seeing an increase.
The number of Welsh speakers overall has fallen by about 2% from 576,000 in 2001 to 562,000 last year
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Wales is FANTASTIC for children so much more freedom is the norm - dont let the thought of the language put you off with children - all the incomer childeren I know (lots!!) are doing ace.
seriously - how do english children cope if welsh is the first language? would they not miss out on regular lesson, ie science if they cant understand the lessons? we seriously considered it and still think about moving there. the welsh mountains just do something for me that the scottish ones dont. you could just image dragons flying over them couldnt u? ha :excited:
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Difficult one this as despite "home rule" and the Welsh parliament's efforts ( and expenditure), the number of welsh speakers continues to decline. It is unlikeley but if the rate of decline continues then there will be very few welsh speakers in 10 years time.
If few people are speaking a dying language then it becomes harder for children to use what they are being taught. From my experience ( with a different language) there were difficulties and resentment in the home caused by the "need" to speak a different language to the majority of people one came into contact with. Learning a language to use exclusiveley in the home or when you visit family was a waste of time and caused family tension. I hope this is not the case for those who have moved to Wales and have children learning welsh.
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Sadly I see Welsh as a struggling/dying language too (not least because of people like us coming in and diluting..) but a language learnt is never a waste - from what I have learnt about child development, it really helps all round brain development.. and with welsh there are lots of common roots to note with Latin and French as you go on to learn others. But as my son will possibly want to work and live in a wider world, I'm happy that English is his first language (as it would continue to be for any incomer...even if you had a baby here) but that he will be a bilingual adult. It will be a struggle for me to get the option for him to take GCSEs in English (he'll probably have to go to a different secondary school), but I'm keen for that to be an option for him. It doesnt matter what the second language is - the skills to pick up a new one are there. One thing is for sure I will not be able to get a job in education or public sector until I can speak it so.....Dwi'n mynd ymlain ( I go forward)!!!! AND its fab here!!!
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I can really understand the drive that wants to reinforce national identity through Welsh. My London is a mongrel place so full of confidence that the fact that the English can't afford to live there and it's possible not to hear any English spoken on the street doesn't perhaps matter. But for Wales, in a joined-up world I'd question the wisdom in teaching a fair chunk of the population in a language that has no relevance to that world.
There's an interesting parallel with Catalonia which under Franco was an industrial powerhouse, ahead of Madrid. After his death the region became autonomous and Catalan, almost banned under Franco, became the chosen language (with others). Although not in fact the majority language in daily use it's the language of government etc and is required to be used for all information displayed to the public. One way and another Barcelona lost its appeal to business, which 30 years on is dominated by Madrid. The international companies which came to Spain almost always established in Madrid, language being a key component.
Now the recent election has put secession firmly onto the political agenda. Madrid is going to fight this tooth and nail which is going to impact on any discussions the Scottish Parliament wants to have with the EU on independence. Madrid will probably vote against Scotland being allowed to join the EU simply because of its fight with Catalonia.
The more the world shrinks the more people want to belong to something local and the more the national politicians hate it! Good luck to the Scots and Welsh.
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I have to agree with one earlier comment though. There appears to be a bit of a relaxed attitude to time keeping & urgency. Many do things 'just in time' or even later than that. I'm still struggling with this one!
When I first moved there, I got caught out in supposedly English-speaking Exmoor. If you ask a Devonian to do something for you, s/he may say, "I'll do that d'rectly." Which means I'll do it when I get round to it - possibly this year, maybe not... :D
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The headteacher of my daughters primary school told me recently that Powys is having a real push again when it comes to teaching Welsh. Her class teacher has just returned from an intensive residential course in Welsh and the head speaks more or less fluently. However, many of the Welsh parents at the school don't support the teaching of Welsh in school for much the same reasons as given by SF. I think I'm correct in saying that in most parts of rural Wales the council is the largest employer and they do at least prefer you to be able to speak Welsh. I am encouraging mine to learn for this reason and also because it is spoken locally, albeit in pockets.
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Perhaps we English (If we are still allowed to be English) should push for the re-introduction of Anglo Saxon as our first language ,
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What is English then ;D ? First, second, third of 9th generation immigrant :excited: .
My OH came over with the Norman's and even got a castle thrown in. Unfortunately they had to leave for a bit becuase they got involved in some murder of a bishop but they got back into being "english" before keeping their catholic heads down for a bit. Not sure that her family ever spoke anglo saxon though! ;D
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The Welsh were really the old English till they got shoved over to the west . Some stayed in Wales , some went to Cormwall and others went to Breton . So Welsh is really what was spoken in most of England when we were Celts . Ahhh the good old days eh ?
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Wales is FANTASTIC for children so much more freedom is the norm - dont let the thought of the language put you off with children - all the incomer childeren I know (lots!!) are doing ace.
seriously - how do english children cope if welsh is the first language? would they not miss out on regular lesson, ie science if they cant understand the lessons? we seriously considered it and still think about moving there. the welsh mountains just do something for me that the scottish ones dont. you could just image dragons flying over them couldnt u? ha :excited:
The amazing thing is thay they do cope - the younger, the more easily (Id say 8 was the edge of 'sponging it up' - and my son found it difficult for the first year, but saying that ....a new friends son is 8 and is absolutuely flying picking it up). Interestingly, in year 5 and 6 some of the teaching is in english to bring the welsh speakers up to speed. If I had secondary age children, I possibly wouldnt move to Bala as I agree, I think you'd miss too much at an important stage whilst learning the language. As an adult I recon it would take 3 -5 years to become fluent, but Jamie is nearly there after 18 months. It is a toughy and there were many times last year when I wondered if we had done the right thing for him - but seeing him aged 10 rounding up sheep on his motocross, helping his dad fetch logs on the quad bike and trailer, haymaking, or setting out to call for his friend up the valley, then catching glimpses of them running around the fields hours later provides the balance! We lived at a busy traffic lights in Brum in a semi before and craved green, mountains and lakes.
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Arrrrr ....... that's a lovely story FiB. I know the feeling. We didn't live in such an urban place but still very different from here and get exactly what you are saying. Children do adapt very easily when they are young. My daughter was barely 7 when we came and can't remember living anywhere else and my farming neighbour says that my children are more country children than his ever were.
I think personally that beyond 7/8 a predominately Welsh speaking school would be difficult for some children both educationally and socially ...... though to be immersed in the language is the best way to become fluent ...... mine are unlikely to become truly fluent here.
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I agree. When I moved to I of Arran, my eldest were six and almost five. Within a week of starting school they were speaking with Scottish accents. Not quite the same as learning a language but similar. Now, 18 years after leaving Scotland, they still have a hint of the accent left and people tend to think they are Scottish.
Interestingly, my youngest was nine months when we went there and has never had a Scottish accent. His is London, like mine.
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my kids all speak with an english accent, even tho 2 were born in scotland and we have been in scotland for 8 yrs.
i rem when i lived in n ireland as i kid, i spoke strong n. irish at school ten switched to english wheni got home! it was when my friends were round for tea that i got tricky!
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My son is older than my daughter but sounds more Welsh ....... talk about rolling"r"s ::) .
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My children's father reckoned it was because the children had to fit in to a new school so they unconciously adopted the same accents. Their younger brother didn't remember living anywhere else so didn't have to worry.
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we do have gaelic programmes here tho, both adult and kids.