The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Sheep => Topic started by: morri2 on September 25, 2012, 11:42:26 am
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OMG! Have just been to NSA ram sale in Builth Wells - awful weather, arrogant farmers, all round bad day >:( . I took four lovely Polled Dorset rams - two of which were really good - sold the best two for a ridiculous price. There were some beautiful Hampshire Downs, Southdowns and a few more Dorsets (not one horned breed, I noticed) and they went for a song. All the buyers were interested in were the commercial breeds - Texel/Beltex/Charrolais. All those which, from the rear, and often from the front, resemble pigs. Perhaps I'm just old fashioned, but I think this is a sad downturn for the native breeds. The punters were the most unpleasant lot I've ever come across. The guy who bought my lovely Dorsets for a pittance actually came up to me and asked for 'a bit of luck' (I assume this means I should give him some money ??? - could someone fill me in on this??) My OH nearly punched him. He told him he'd already had his luck when he bought my two best rams for next to nothing. If this is a tradition, then I think its a bit misplaced when you've bought something which is clearly well below what its worth.
Anyway - I'm mortified that such a horrible man has bought my lovely tame, good natured rams, :'( so I've decided now that good homes are my priority - I'm going to give the other two away to good homes if anyone is interested - they will be good tups for someone who will appreciate them. See my ad in the Marketplace. I have some pics I can email too.
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Having met Morri and her lovely lovely rams yesterday I can vouch that they looked very nice! If I had commercials/ x breds or Dorsets I would jump at the chance of one....and pay her some good money for them! Quick....whilst you have the chance!
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I agree Morri, Carlisle rare breeds auction on Saturday was full of bad tempered, rushed people, often quite rude. My best ducks which I had kept for this mart rather than Lanark, went for half the price they did at Lanark (advantage at Lanark is that they bidding is at the cages rather than blind in the ring). I wish I had put a reserve on them, I would have taken them home and sold them privately. So, like you, I am going to sell privately from now on - have put 4 enquiries off until end of next month so I could do Carlisle first, shouldn't have bothered. :rant:
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Oh Morri2 I hate marts as well and I think it's worth selling your animals privately or through the rare breeds sales just to avoid them. At something like the big ram sales they really are for the commercial boys.
The luck money thing is a tradition and we have been in the same situation as you with people demanding it when they have paid peanuts for animals. To my mind it's something you give when you are pleased with your price and pleased with your buyer.
Try not to be too upset about your rams - most of the time they will be out doing what rams do and won't see their new owner. Their harems are likely to be much bigger than with a small breeder, so they will be very happy 8) :sheep: :sheep:
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i was going to start a separate thread but this is as close to it as makes no difference
just informed today of two sheep breeders one offered to buy the others tup at the RHS and offered a very good price for it they refused saying they would get more for it at stirling it ended up selling for less than half what was offered no wonder the buyer had a smile from ear to ear
any way the luck and buyers sad to say they will be going for killing these buyers buy for processors and the luck aspect is there bonus some get a percentage others get a fixed price per animal traditionally if the buyer did not get any luck they would pick fault with the animal and return it or get a reduction in the price
although last year at a pig sale the vendor waved a twenty pound note saying this was the luck aspect after the bidding faltered it worked she got an extra £40
the luck aspect can make a difference for future buyers as well give it and get the demand for your stock refuse it and get a lower price :farmer:
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It's a buyers market out there! unfortunately they can have you over a barrel.I hate markets, always have. I leave that side of things to my OH who has been going since he was a kid and knows a lot of buyers.
It really makes a difference to get your face out there and get known. To just go occassionally has them baying for your blood.
Unfortunately Down breeds are a bit out of fashion at the moment. Commercial buyers especially in Builth would want high index rams who will finish lambs quickly. Many societies really push the SRS scheme and Farmers want to know what they are buying these days and want the figures to back it up.You can't blame them, farming is a lot more technical these days than just throwing the boy in with the girls.
Continentals are in fashion and do the job ( don't get me wrong so will a Down breed but they don't command the high prices a continental will)
We have Hampshire Downs and only ever keep enough rams that we know we can sell, the rest go out through as lambs. But i know breeders who hold back lots and flood the market and still moan like hell when they can't sell them.
Don't dispair it is still early for buying rams, sometimes people come at the last minuit to buy or miss out at market so look elsewhere.
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Caroline I commiserate, although not being able to offer anything in the way of advice really... I was disappointed at the whole feel of Carlisle sale on Saturday - too much of a family day out rather than a proper sale event. Few people bothered to come and speak to sellers (I was trying to buy only, but ended up going home with an empty trailer) or examine the animals closely.
I will try and go down the private route more than auction marts (for breeding stock).
PS.: But I do actually like Texel and Beltex tups :o ... just a bit on the heavy side for me to handle... and I do have one for my commercial ewes...
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*Gasp*... I hate to hide my Charollias' eyes from that.... like pigs??? LOL ;)
That's why I don't do markets... well, one of the reasons!
I am shocked they didn't like Poll Dorsets tho...nice terminal sire breed, grow to weight quickly and large carcass size.. some just don't like woolly faces/legs tho!
'Luck' I believe is quite a northern tradition... in the seventies it used to be £1 but farmers prefered it in coins, not notes. Notes were deemed not-lucky. More superstition, I think.
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It isn't really about whether you 'like' the wooly pigs or not as a commercial sheep farmer - its about what your customers want, and if their progeny is what the meat buyers want at market - thats what you buy. I can't bring myself to buy a texel or beltex, cos I'm told I'd have to start pulling lambs and I feel that charly lambs would be too 'soft' for my system - so I have SufTexs.... I'll tell you how they do next year.
Farming is a business, and you'd be daft to buy a ram who you knew would give you less value for his offspring.
Having said that - there are a few big users of poll dorsets about, mostly for out of season lambing, you might do better selling them off-farm.
For my costings; I always value all my sheep as meat, and then if I get more for them, either as breeding ewes or stock rams, its a bonus, but I know I can keep my business running without doing that.
I don't like breeding stock auctions/shows either - but I don't think thats any secret. :P
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well i weight record my sheep and had the figures on the pen he only got to meat price so he is hanging as i type he was past tense a Hampshire down next year the tup lambs will go as spring lambs :farmer:
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I've only ever gone to the Bluith ram sale once and said never again. It was packed with some downright nasty people just looking for bargains at the sellers expense. :rant:
I now only ever buy and sell privately or at my particular downs breed sale, where you do have some idea as to who these animals are going to.
Don't under sell your stock as it is hard work to breed them and look after them and at the end of the day that costs money.
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hi
some of the prices paid for the "commerial" tups are out of this world!
full market report here
http://farmingeye.com/ (http://farmingeye.com/)
scroll down to the builth sale
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Well, thanks all, I'm glad its not just me. Mallowsflock - sorry, nothing personal to your sheep. ;)
I sold eight rams last year, privately, which fetched three times per ram what I wound up with yesterday. I am definitely sticking to that method in future.
I'm not a commercial farmer, I'm like many others on here - a smallholder and hobby farmer. I actually prefer to keep sheep for fleeces (Bowmont and Bowmont x Dorset) than anything else, so I think I will be moving more in that direction now. As far as my Dorset's go, I can't bring myself to start keeping sheep I don't like - my Dorsets are so docile and friendly, and so easy to handle. I witnessed some amazing feats of showjumping by some of the continental rams yesterday - two went clear over the side of the ring! You wouldn't get a Dorset doing that. But it appears that the native breeds are becoming more and more minority breeds as farming (and economic instability) leads us in the direction of more profit per capita, which is a terrible shame. Surely we can't all throw in our lot with the continental breeds :o . I'm sure (from the butcher/meat eater's point of view) the native meat is far tastier. Perhaps we should have more 'smallholder' sales or 'native breed' sales so we smallholders with 'proper' sheep can get fairer prices. Perhaps invite a few chefs to attend and lay on some samples (not a bad suggestion from a veggie - don't you think? ;D ) Just a thought !!
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Maybe the native breed societies need to help small breeders get better at marketing their produce - or is there a role for RBST in this?
Please don't give up your Dorset Downs :-)
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I am absolutely positive that there is a place for our native breeds of sheep here in their native country. Continental breeds have been developed on the ....continent which has a different climate and different eating habits.
Here we have native breeds which cover just about anything sheep can be used for, with every trait from hardiness to meatiness and loads in between, all with the added advantage of being adapted to our environment. Add to that the fact that the food fashion nowadays is not for a huge Sunday roast eaten around the dining room table with the whole family present, but for small roasting joints to suit 2 - 4 people, plus chops, sausages and burgers which are quick to thaw and prepare after a hard day at work. This says to me that the larger continental breeds will decline in usefulness and farmers will be looking to reintroduce more taste and a slightly smaller size, but more animals per acre, into their sheep.
Just my opinion :sheep: :sheep: :sheep:
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Although I have sold a few Jacobs at Thainstone rare breed I would really prefer to sell privately - get to know the buyer and tell them all about the sheep they may wish to purchase.
Totally agree with Fleecewife above - the day of the wee sheep will come back - I think they are great - but I'm a smallholder not a farmer so I've never seen things from their perspective.
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I've got Ryelands and when I first had them they were a rare breed, they are now a minority breed. They are now very popular as the last breed sale at Ludlow shows as there was some excellent prices for breeding stock.
There is a market for what I class as other than commercials. People like us (smallholders & small farmers) want something that is easy to look after and is easily handled. Don't forget the big boys deal in thousands of sheep which usually end up on the supermarket shelves, but how did they get there.
Around where I live there is some good farmers and some really bad ones who only do the very basic of husbandry and don't think anything of leaving a dead sheep in the field to save on the cost of disposing of them.
My sheep I have known from day one except for the odd ones I buy in, but then only bought from a good source. I can choose to keep or sell as I want, but I expect a fair price for what I have. Ryelands are easy lambers if not too fat and the lambs can be finished on grass alone. They make an excellent carcass. Sell the meat to friends and family if need be or even butchers who will snap up a Ryeland, just ask them, but don't let them sell you short.
There is definitely a market for "other than commercials" just hang in there and you call the shorts.
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Well I don't know if you'll all think this is good news or not, but the top-priced Shetland at Carlisle on Saturday was sold to a commercial Beltex farmer, who is going to use him to tup the Beltex hoggs - he says it gives them easy lambs to birth for their first time, and the lambs are full of get-up-and-go, which is very helpful with first time mothers.
And the offpsring are perfectly saleable - they'll finish a little more slowly than full Beltex but the conformation will be good and the size exactly what the supermarkets want.
The tup's breeder was pleased at the price, but disappointed that the best tup she'd ever bred was being sold out of the breed so his genes are lost to the breed. :-\
And here, we are excited to be intermingling some of the natives' and primitives' genes in our commercial flock - hoping for 'good skins' (important in a commercial flock - but not because of the wool price), better feet, better natural immunity, good get-up-and-go in the lambs, wider pelvis, good hardiness, short tails. Oh and the moon on a stick, that too. :roflanim:
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Well I don't know if you'll all think this is good news or not, but the top-priced Shetland at Carlisle on Saturday was sold to a commercial Beltex farmer, who is going to use him to tup the Beltex hoggs - he says it gives them easy lambs to birth for their first time, and the lambs are full of get-up-and-go, which is very helpful with first time mothers.
And the offpsring are perfectly saleable - they'll finish a little more slowly than full Beltex but the conformation will be good and the size exactly what the supermarkets want.
I have just sold all my Commercial cross Shetlands.... they were the ones picked out first out of all my commercials and shetland x's..... they are nice, solid, soft fleeced compact darlings.. with nice rumps and hardier feet. Brilliant!
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After my shetland tup knocked me on Sunday I would quite like to see him surrounded by 50 Beltex hoggs :roflanim: :roflanim:
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After my shetland tup knocked me on Sunday I would quite like to see him surrounded by 50 Beltex hoggs :roflanim: :roflanim:
He would, too. ;)
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Well I don't know if you'll all think this is good news or not, but the top-priced Shetland at Carlisle on Saturday was sold to a commercial Beltex farmer, who is going to use him to tup the Beltex hoggs
The tup's breeder was pleased at the price, but disappointed that the best tup she'd ever bred was being sold out of the breed so his genes are lost to the breed. :-\
And how much did he go for? Of the three white ones one did not get any bids, the second one sold for 50 quid and the third one went up to 130 but was not sold. Surely you wouldn't use a coloured one on Beltex's ? ( I left after the white tups were done, as that was what I came for...)
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Livestock markets can be scary places, but in this economic climate we all need to make money from our smallholdings and Markets give you an opportunity to make good money from the product we have produced . The sheep trade has dropped off alot in recent weeks due to the uncertainty of the future fat lamb trade .Often if you sell to buyers ( buying for supermarkets or large abattoirs ) if you get a chance and speak to them they will buy straight from your farm so cutting out the need to go to a market at all .
I think perhaps that some of the reason rams can be cheap is perhaps that there are far to many around , often ram lambs that would have been better off castrated and would have made as much as a meat animals are kept entire to be sold as breeding rams . The down breeds are out of favour but have there followers, but commercial guys like lambs that grow quick and kill out as the butchers/supermarkets want them so Charolais texel beltex Suffolk are usually used .
Farmers can be grumpy buggers ( my Dad is ) but we all have off days , but get the courage to chat to them on market day and they ll talk about there livestock till the sun goes down and give u free advice and help.
Its always a good idea to visit your local livestock market as often as you can just to get the feel of what happens and also to get your face known , introduce yourself to the auctioneer there always good to have on your side .
Don't be put off by livestock markets they have been around for hundreds of years and are a big part of many small county towns and bring huge amounts of cash to these small towns each market day .
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Well I don't know if you'll all think this is good news or not, but the top-priced Shetland at Carlisle on Saturday was sold to a commercial Beltex farmer, who is going to use him to tup the Beltex hoggs
The tup's breeder was pleased at the price, but disappointed that the best tup she'd ever bred was being sold out of the breed so his genes are lost to the breed. :-\
And how much did he go for? Of the three white ones one did not get any bids, the second one sold for 50 quid and the third one went up to 130 but was not sold. Surely you wouldn't use a coloured one on Beltex's ? ( I left after the white tups were done, as that was what I came for...)
£200. Yes, coloured. I guess the guy specifically wanted Alma's breeding. She does have nice square sheep with good backsides, I must say.
Oh, and she bought a white tup lamb (outside the ring, one of the passed out ones) as they think they might like to be able to show in the white classes as well as the coloured ones...
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OMG! Have just been to NSA ram sale in Builth Wells - awful weather, arrogant farmers, all round bad day >:( . I took four lovely Polled Dorset rams - two of which were really good - sold the best two for a ridiculous price. There were some beautiful Hampshire Downs, Southdowns and a few more Dorsets (not one horned breed, I noticed) and they went for a song. All the buyers were interested in were the commercial breeds - Texel/Beltex/Charrolais. All those which, from the rear, and often from the front, resemble pigs. Perhaps I'm just old fashioned, but I think this is a sad downturn for the native breeds. The punters were the most unpleasant lot I've ever come across. The guy who bought my lovely Dorsets for a pittance actually came up to me and asked for 'a bit of luck' (I assume this means I should give him some money ??? - could someone fill me in on this??) My OH nearly punched him. He told him he'd already had his luck when he bought my two best rams for next to nothing. If this is a tradition, then I think its a bit misplaced when you've bought something which is clearly well below what its worth.
Anyway - I'm mortified that such a horrible man has bought my lovely tame, good natured rams, :'( so I've decided now that good homes are my priority - I'm going to give the other two away to good homes if anyone is interested - they will be good tups for someone who will appreciate them. See my ad in the Market
Hi what area are you from?I need a Dorset tup for my new flock of dorsets.Can I have some pictures please because I cant find ad .