The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: sweet_lfa on July 24, 2012, 10:58:21 am
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At the moment, my new pigs are in a fairly small paddock as they are being trained about electric fences. I have noticed that they are not eating the grass close to their arc, which seems to be a toilet area. Are they selective grazers like horses? Not that it really matters, I am just interested to know. Thanks.
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would you eat something that you have defecated on all pigs even the commercial ones (if given plenty space ) will have a toilet area all pigs need a varied diet and although they can eat grass (normally they eat the grass first then start rooting then you have no grass for them to have a meager diet)
they have to have a supplementary source of protein and any way pigs are not ruminants :farmer:
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Thanks for the reply. The Kunekune society states that they thrive on a diet of grass, fresh fruit and vegetables And in the summer they should live on grass and vegetables alone! I am however, feeding them a small amount of 16% protein pig nuts at the moment too. The previous home they came from fed them on a very poor diet of human scraps and they are quite overweight, so they are on a bit of a health kick at the moment! So do you disagree with what the kunekune society says they should be fed?
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I notice that mine tend to walk away from the arc, to their chosen spot, to do their 'business' - it's not always the same spot mind you ::)
We feed our growing Kunekunes one pound of pig nuts per day and give plenty of fruit & veg/grazing. Once they're over a year (providing they're not breeding pigs) they get a handful of nuts twice daily, but only if we're short of fruit & veg. If yours are over a year (especially if they're a bit 'porky') you should be able to cut the pig nuts down to get the extra weight off them.
HTH
Karen :wave:
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Hi Karen
Thanks for the reply.
My main reason for asking the initial question was I was wondering if, like horses, pigs have designated toilet areas which are then left - creating "roughs" where the grass is left. The other poster seemed to think I am a bit stupid :-[ I am not expecting them to eat grass from toilet areas, was just interested to know about their habits as I am a first time pig keeper.
They are 18 months old and will soon be moving to another area as they have learnt quickly about the electric fence. I have about 6 acres specially for them, around which they are going to be moved to clear it (hopefully!!). :fc:
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nobody thought you were stupid cows wont eat grass that has had cow dung spread on it and yes the majority of pigs do use the one area for the toilet just as horses do :farmer:
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I've never noticed a dedicated latrene (is that the word ?) the way horses have, but it could just be I don't spend long enough watching them :D
If you're regularly rotating them it'll not be an issue, any poo will decompose over winter and add lots of goodness to the ground. But, if you've not already, get them wormed before putting out onto fresh grass - you don't want them adding that to the ground ;)
WIth just 2 Kunekunes and 6 acres it's going to take a while to clear though - as they'll not root as much as bigger pigs....til the goodness goes from the grass in autumn time then they'll rootle it all up nicely for you ;)
Any other questions just ask away - I love my Kunekunes I do ;) ;D :pig: :love: :pig:
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just noticed your reply sweet-ifa fed on humane scraps so that will have come from the kitchen then once a pig gets fat or obese it will take months of a starvation diet to get them back down to a normal backfat or body condition
pigs are not ruminants they need a variety of foods to grow carrion being one this idea of a grass eating and surviving on grass only pig is only brought about by a few to encourage others that that breed of pig can survive on fresh air if it could it would be the mainstay of the commercial herd(good grass and silage is cheaper than concentrates just ask a proper dairy or beef farmer) :farmer:
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I agree Robert, research has been carried out keeping pigs in woods with some grass down south, the pigs foraged all day long on the grass, roots, nuts etc and although they wern't thin, they were definately well behind pigs of the same age fed on compound food.
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Sorry, bit late coming back to this! Horses aren't ruminants either Robert, but they survive on grass! :) Pigs are categorised as ominvores, but seeing as by law they are not meant to eat any animal product, I'm not sure why you refer to them eating carrion? I am assuming you mean wild boar?
As for them being a bit overweight - they are purely pets and I obviously had no control over their diet with their previous owner. I just want them to be healthy so that they have long and happy lives. I do not intend to put them on a strict starvation diet, but I would have thought that the correct diet would be a good place to start.
BTW I am loving piggy ownership, how could anyone fail to love a kunekune?! :pig::love:
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any pig will eat carrion if it is available there was a post not that long ago about kunnies eating dead pheasants
that is the trouble with kunnies if fed to well they live up to there name fat better to get there weight down so that they will live a long life when they are to fat they can expire suddenly
glad you are enjoying pig ownership just think of the rare breed British pigs that are missing out on your attention :farmer:
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I've never noticed a dedicated latrene (is that the word ?) the way horses have, but it could just be I don't spend long enough watching them :D
If you're regularly rotating them it'll not be an issue, any poo will decompose over winter and add lots of goodness to the ground. But, if you've not already, get them wormed before putting out onto fresh grass - you don't want them adding that to the ground ;)
WIth just 2 Kunekunes and 6 acres it's going to take a while to clear though - as they'll not root as much as bigger pigs....til the goodness goes from the grass in autumn time then they'll rootle it all up nicely for you ;)
Any other questions just ask away - I love my Kunekunes I do ;) ;D :pig: :love: :pig:
Well you have not seen an Alpacas Latrine then ....... more dedicated than ever.
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i find horses crap any where, except stallions who will have several marking spots that get higher and higher with dung.
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My pigs and my friends horses who are often on our land don't seem to have a designated dunging area, yet another friend who has Dartmoor ponies tells me that hers dung in one place as taught by their mothers.
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My Kunekunes will only go the toilet in one area of the paddock, each week I just skip this out with a horse muck rake :)
Also once my kunekunes have slowed growing (around 9 months) I no longer feed them anything apart from the grass they graze and maybe 3 times a week they get some veggies/in the summer fallen apples and then autumn they get acorns.
Over winter they are fed 0.5kgs of soaked sugar beet per day ontop of grazing. I think I worked out once that per pig it costs me £15 to feed per year. I only feed them this due to lack of veg/apples/acorns, but I suppose sugar beet can still be classed as veg? so yes, kunekunes can thrive on a diet of grazing + some veg :) :thumbsup:
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there is grass and grass, is it good grazing they r getting, ie what wud fatten a beef cow, or rough grass that would fatten a native pony?
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I have just moved the kunes into an area of what they must think of as piggy jungle! It is very over grown with long grass, brambles, hog weed and bay willow herb, but they seem to be enjoying themselves :) . I have cut the pig nuts down to a few handfuls a day, but am feeding them veg everyday and they are making a start at clearing the vegetation.
Robert, it took me over 18months to persuade my family to let me have some pigs and the only way I could get them to oblige was saying that they were to clear the land and that they were little pigs. They were dead against me getting pigs at all, but they have all fallen for the kunes! Thankfully!
As for horses and latrine areas, I have a mare and a gelding and they only soil in certain areas, which then don't get grazed (however long they are left), which is why you get the "roughs and lawns" where horses graze. They always use the same spots in fields. Luckily the Dexters eat the rough areas down tho :)
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sweet ifa good to hear your family have fallen for the charms of pigs just need to get them to like big pigs that will really clear your wild areas
ladygrey it must be some place with a temperate climate that you can get grass growing 365 days a year what weight gain are you achieving with littel or no protein in there diet
£15 a year to feed a pig i will bet poultry will cost more to keep is all costs involved being added in to this figure fruit and veg although free you still have to collect it the same as beet pulp it is not the cost per bag but the transport as well then the paddock fencing that costs as well :farmer:
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sweet ifa good to hear your family have fallen for the charms of pigs just need to get them to like big pigs that will really clear your wild areas
We have about 6 acres of really wild land, I know that the kunekunes won't be able to clear that on their own! What (smallish) big pigs would you recommend? Remember that I am a piggy novice, so a nice friendly breed of pig is required!
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the berkshire is the smallest of the large breeds but the lop is the friendliest that is British lop in reality they are all friendly if you get them young enough to interact with split it in to three parts once they have trashed one part move them on to the next it will take a few years to get it under control but they will do it :farmer:
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tammies arent big if u r sending emaway at 6 mths
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Hi Robert :wave: sorry I never replied, been so busy with getting ready to start the silageing, I live in sunny England :) near reading, my grass stays good due to rotational paddock grazing and overseeding throughout the summer months, I have included all costs in that amount and intact it's probly less then £15 per pig per year as that is calculated at me feeding the pigs for 300 days of the year and I probly only feed them for 200-250 days of the year. Robert no, feeding a hen costs me £8.78 per hen per year, based on the fact that the hen eats 100 grams of feed per day, so that's 36.5 kilos of food per year, at £6 per 25 kilos, that's 24p per kilo, meaning one hen eats £8.78 per year :) and hens need feeding everyday whereas the pigs don't. Also for me the whole point of keeping kunekunes is extremely low input pork and piglets, so I do not mind waiting until 6-8 months for a pig to be finished, seeing as I am actually getting more for money than a different breed pig :) sent from my phone hence it's all in one block..
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ladygrey what are the weights of your pigs at 6 months and 8 months old there will be a lot of poultry folk wanting to know where they can get poultry feed for £240 a ton :farmer:
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6 months 42-45 kilo, 8 months 50-54 kilos, and yup but it's helpful working with farmers and knowing how to get it and what to get for your animals :) also I feed piglets up until 9 months of age on sugar beet ontop of thier grazing, this price is still included in my average of £15 per pig per year for when you ask ;) I know I don't get as much meat off each animal as if I was using different breeds, but working it out, I get more for my money, I know it's probly hard for you to accept :farmer:
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this thread reminds me of a local guy round here who set up with a traditional breed of pig (LB tams etc), fed them on bakery waste, claimed he only spent £10 per pig to finish them inside. a friend who bought the meat claimed it was soo tough and un-tasty. was selling to a butcher for £2 p kilo - no killing costs but then butcher wouldnt buy anymore. The guy soon gave up pigs as he ran at a loss and the knackerman told me "thru the grapevine" that most were shot as they were so poor they couldnt have even gone to market without being reported. pneumonia i think they had in the end. my friend reckoned they had no shelter from wind in their barn and were v underfed.
just throwing this in out of interest and lack of a decent debate for ages - in no way implying this with ladygrey. :bouquet:
LG - how many pigs per acre r ur kk's?
is the overseeding for the kk's paddock and if so how much per acre is the overseeding.
serious question cos im needing to do this and my prices seem to be £30-£80 per acre to over seed. plus £20 delivery by post from english seed merchant or £20 fuel to collect from local supplier.
ta
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i think sense has went out the barn door with the pig farts thank you ladygrey for your weights your six month weights are only a third of what can be achieved and the difference betwean the six month weight and the eight month weight is easily achievable in a week
grass seed is not cheap have you costed your time costed your veg collection there wont be dinner plates or tea plates in your house it will be saucers
and kill charges are just the same for a 45 kilo pig as a 125 kilo one and that has got to be cheaper per kilo for the bigger carcase and your paddock has a cost attached either from initial purchase or fencing
and just in case anybody is tempted to go down this route of grass fed pigs in Scotland just don't even think of it your summer is only 180 days if you are lucky the grass growth in this year is appalling there is just not enough protein in the pigs diet your only customer will be the knacker man but what would i know as it is hard to accept :farmer:
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the grass growth in this year is appalling
definitely
we must go thru 6 big bales of straw a yr just for pigs between stables/farrowing sheds and sties, cos it seems to just disappear. ??? ;D we seem to have a rolling 25 head at mo including babies.
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Hi folks :wave:
I'm gonna jump-in on this for as long as my internet connection lasts :fc:
I'd love to be able to say that my KKs only cost me a couple of quid a year to keep, but not so ...
We've got ours on 2 acres of woodland (rotated) with a small amount of grazing, though mainly foraging. Not including maternity & nursery feeding, my adults cost £72 per year on sow rolls alone, delivered at a tonne per time.
If I add in the fruit & veg (mainly during the winter), bedding (including the lot they eat ;) ) wormers, vaccinations - I could easily double that.
Then, remember us KK breeders are not able to castrate our boys ourselves, so the cost of raising a litter is much more expensive per head than for any other breed.
And then there is always the cost of shows - gear, entrance fees, petrol ... :innocent:
:love: :pig: :love:
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Then, remember us KK breeders are not able to castrate our boys ourselves,
why not? :wave: :wave:
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Then, remember us KK breeders are not able to castrate our boys ourselves,
why not? :wave: :wave:
Because of their wee (lol ;) ) inguinal issues :love: :pig: :love:
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The Kunekunes are really prone to hernia's, (especially during castration) due to a weakness in their inguinal wall. So generally speaking they're better to have a closed castration, done by a vet, at around 6 weeks old. BUT there are people who castrate them themselves, at under a week old and seem to get on fine.
For me, it's better to get the vet though. While I'm happy enough to castrate and feel confident & competant with it, I know I couldn't fix a hernia and wouldn't want to be in that position. (Plus Kunekune testicals at under a week old are really tiny - it wouldn't be an easy job to locate them :-\ we know, cos we did look ;))
Castrated boars make the best outside pets/long term pigs (no sex hormones or piggy pmt to worry about ;)) so all of ours who aren't reserved for breeding tend to end up getting pampered lives of riley :innocent: ;D
I can't feed my Kunekunes for £15 a year, if I could I'd have loads (oh wait, I do have loads :innocent: :D ::))
They cost me an average of around £65-£75 (for pig nuts) per year, approximately a quarter of our Large Blacks and OSB's growers ration and a sixth of the breeding pigs ration. (I keep threatening to get rid of the 4 big pigs and replace them with 24 extra Kunekunes :roflanim: but wouldn't really :innocent:)
Yes, they grow slower and don't gain as much in such a short time as other breeds but they cost less in hard feed to get to that weight (and don't have the same reliance on soya or wheat for protien & growth - usefull when the feed prices are rising and harvests look less than promising ;)), are gentler on your ground and are very easy to manage pigs. When the grass goes in late autumn/winter (or if they're inside) we give them some silage/haylege (or hay, if we're feeling flush ;)) to make up for the lack of grazing, they love sugar beet too - but we've got to ration them carefully to prevent excess fat (though now I'm soap making, extra fat is good ! :relief:)
To be perfectly honest - it's my Kunekune herd that pays to keep my big pigs here :o
The profit from them has allowed me to expand and keep & breed bigger pigs. I know the big pigs should pay for themselves, but with costs as they are they break even or give a small profit £20-£30 per finished pig - and switching to a more commercial, fast growing breed just isn't a road I want to go down (it's just not my bag baby, as Austin Powers would say ;))
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Castrated boars make the best outside pets/long term pigs (no sex hormones or piggy pmt to worry about ;))
Oh God, do girl piggies get PMT ??? Eeeek!!! How often do they come into season? Mine have been little angels so far, I can't believe how cute and funny they are. They seem to be having a great time in their piggy jungle so far and are doing a great job of clearing the land. Now I've just go to decide what to do with the land when I move the pigs to the next big of jungle?? They also seemed to have given up on their arc in favour of sleeping under the stars (and weeds) on dry nights - is this normal??
PS Anyone who says Kunes don't root should come and have a look at my land :o But I am happy as that is what I got them for :thumbsup:
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Pigs will come into season every three weeks from around the age of 6 months (though it can be a bit earlier with KK's) My pigs do suffer from Piggy PMT - but not all the time. They get a bit more vocal and 'needy' wanting extra cuddles and attention from us or breaking out their fields to try and find the boar :excited: (though not as bad as someone I know who's little Kunekune sow actually goes through electric fence AND takes the barn door off to get out to the boar :o :D) If there's a castrated boar with them I find they tend to take it out on him, poor fella gets harrassed for 3 days by randy girls and he has no clue why or what to do about it - much to their frustration :roflanim:
Don't worry about them sleeping outside (as long as it's not because their bedding is wet) they'll probably be cooler there than inside.
Yes, they root ! If they're on long, rough grass they'll root it up and once the short, fresh stuff comes in they should (but not always) choose to graze it instead :fc: I had some which rooted more as youngsters and grew out of it as they got a bit older (mostly :innocent:)
HTH
Karen :wave:
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(though not as bad as someone I know who's little Kunekune sow actually goes through electric fence AND takes the barn door off to get out to the boar :o :D )
Tell tale ;) :love: :pig: :love:
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Sorry guys, been working 16 hour days getting the silage in, only manageing to come online right now due to the fact silage is finished and we are meant to be doing hay but the weather is too bad :gloomy:
Robert Im not quite sure what you are trying to get at here ???
Its like telling a person who milks jersey cows that they could get double the milk yield if only they switched to holsteins.. but obviously jersey cows work for them, they get a higher price per litre and they dont need as much input feed...
I get apples delivered to my house by the trailer load over autumn from the nearby farming estate and from farming friends, price = £0
I get big bale straw and hay price = £0
I could go on but I dont really see any need, I have a litter of piglets due in a few days and if you are really interested ( and I can find the time) then I will record thier weight's. However it just seems like you want to catch my figures out or something, but there is nothing to catch out
And i know there are many other costs beewyched :) :wave: I just happened to mention purely the FEED costs, nothing else :)
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aren't you the lucky one straw for no cost hay for no cost and even apples for wait for it nothing
in essence your costings are irrelevant and cant be used in comparison with what it actual costs to keep pigs
i like the comparison with the cows :roflanim: but jersey s**t is just as heavy as anyother breed i say this from years of owning and working with jerseys :innocent: even started a beef herd from them and we bottled our milk as well :farmer:
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But I wasn't using my prices in comparison to any other peoples, surely I allowed to mention how much it costs!? The reason why I don't pay for so much is because I know and work for many farmers and it's called friends helping eachother out :) you should try it sometime, anyway If you can't accept that people do things differently please keep your comments to yourself :)
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ladygrey your post reminds me of the local farmer that was intervied by the papers when he made his first million and tell me farmer miller what is the secret of your success good neighbours and poor fences :roflanim:
you may not be comparing prices but others have re read the posts
the whole point of challenging your costs is not to have people new to pig keeping being deluded by your posts with what YOU can keep a pig for even other kunnie breeders have questioned your figures
it is an open forum my comments are just as equal as yours is if you cant stand it either complain to Dan :rant: or don't write comments that are going to be questioned
as to friends helping each other out you know diddly squat about me and if i help others or are a taker like a good many i have come across :farmer:
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Just to cheer you all up, my pigs cost me a fortune.
They're only kunekune's and don't eat much pig food but today I bought them a melon each (it's their birthday, nearly) and a bunch of bananas from Morrisons.
Still need to source cheap fruit and veg.
On the plus side for the pigs, my sheep costs are even more and you can't rub their tummies.
Although we re-seeded part of our pig field I wouldn't like to think that my pigs could just survive on that, but then again all my animals are spoiled rotten.
I hadn't thought about collecting acorns though. Thanks xxx
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I don't add up the costs of keeping my Kunes, sheep and chickens but, I believe that this time of year the chickens pay for themselves+ the pigs and that in the winter, the pigs pay for themselves, the chickens and a large part of the sheep + we get our eggs, chicken, pig products and lamb, if not free, then for next to nothing.
We don't make enough to pay the bills, certainly, though we might do if we were more efficient.
You have to have your market for eggs, pork and lamb to break even. That is the hardest work, 'phoning around retaurants, hotels etc.
We are so fortunate in that a restaurant not too far away will take what we have when we have it.
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Just to cheer you all up, my pigs cost me a fortune.
They're only kunekune's and don't eat much pig food but today I bought them a melon each (it's their birthday, nearly) and a bunch of bananas from Morrisons.
Still need to source cheap fruit and veg.
On the plus side for the pigs, my sheep costs are even more and you can't rub their tummies.
Although we re-seeded part of our pig field I wouldn't like to think that my pigs could just survive on that, but then again all my animals are spoiled rotten.
I hadn't thought about collecting acorns though. Thanks xxx
Hahaha that is brilliant - you sound just like me!!
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LADYGREY you and me will be lucky this year... last year loads of free apples. left at my gate near a wanted sign...... this year i know of about 20 trees that i got free apples from..... this year 2 have apples on and ive already picked these..... feed carrots are just as bad