The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Poultry & Waterfowl => Topic started by: ellied on December 17, 2011, 03:24:13 pm
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I have just taken on a bantam Aracauna cockerel, along with a bantam female and 2 large fowl of the same breed. They are living together and their new abode is next door to my existing 8 large fowl hens (4 BHWT standard brown hens, a Sussex Star, a Black Rock, a RIR and a Bluebelle)..
Q1 are the hybrids all infertile or might they breed if they are allowed to run together?
Q2 assuming the Aracaunas will breed to him, will the RIR too as a presumed purebred?
Q3 what should I expect in the way of girls going broody (none have before)?
Q4 can I still use/sell eggs even with a cockerel around - assuming he's with the lot by spring - or would you keep them separate, try and breed more Aracaunas and live off the original 8 girls in the way of eggs?
Just when I was thinking I knew enough to get by with chooks I go and take on a boy ::)
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Q1 are the hybrids all infertile or might they breed if they are allowed to run together? Do you mean the rescue hens? Mine have produced chicks in the past.
Q2 assuming the Aracaunas will breed to him, will the RIR too as a presumed purebred? He'll try to mate ANYTHING on two legs! They can produce anything too!
Q3 what should I expect in the way of girls going broody (none have before)? How long is a piece of string :-)
Q4 can I still use/sell eggs even with a cockerel around Yup, why not? Nothing wrong with them, except they have 'the potential' to be a viable chick. The majority of my duck eggs are fertile.
Next question? "How are my books doing" Ahem - not a lot, been busy!
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I have just taken on a bantam Aracauna cockerel, along with a bantam female and 2 large fowl of the same breed. They are living together and their new abode is next door to my existing 8 large fowl hens (4 BHWT standard brown hens, a Sussex Star, a Black Rock, a RIR and a Bluebelle)..
Q1 are the hybrids all infertile or might they breed if they are allowed to run together?
Q2 assuming the Aracaunas will breed to him, will the RIR too as a presumed purebred?
Q3 what should I expect in the way of girls going broody (none have before)?
Q4 can I still use/sell eggs even with a cockerel around - assuming he's with the lot by spring - or would you keep them separate, try and breed more Aracaunas and live off the original 8 girls in the way of eggs?
Just when I was thinking I knew enough to get by with chooks I go and take on a boy ::)
Q1)
No, its often hybrid cockerels that can have fertility problems. We've had chicks from warren hybrids. They'll come out lovely colours too!
Q2)
Not 100% sure what you mean?
He'll "have a go" at any of the girls that'll let him, you'll get RIR x Aracauna chicks uf they are hatched & fertile.
Q3)
having a fella doesn't mean they'll go broody - its more to do with their breed, age and instincts.
Q4)
You can USE the eggs
but not SELL them (farm gate sales)
though I'm sure lots do...
h.t.h
:)
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LB, I didn't know you couldn't sell fertile eggs at the farm gate - where does it tell you please? ??? I have people clamouring for my duck eggs (don't have a cockerel so not a problem with the hens) and they all know I have a drake as they come and feed them. ;D ;D ;D
I can see that the commercial people might not be allowed to sell fertile eggs(although I have no idea why ::) ::) As I said there's nothing wrong with them ) but does that apply to people with less than the magic number of 50 birds? ???
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As far I understand (and I'll check!) you shouldn't sell on eggs that are potentially fertile, even if you aren't registered (ie have 49+)
We have a breeding cockerel & pens of egg-layers, so get round it fine.
And I'm sure loads of gate sales are from a mixed flock.
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I also am under the impression you must not sell fertile eggs for eating. But I haven't seen a Defra reg, haven't needed to look it up as we don't sell our eggs.
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I also understand that you shouldn't sell fertile eggs, but I haven't ever seen the "rule" in writing. If you keep them cold and use them quickly, I can't see why it's a problem tbh.
Having said that, we run a cockerel with one of our flocks - I don't think he's very "active' any more though. Our eggs get used so quickly, it's not an issue.
As said already, your cockerel will mate with any hen, regardless of breed (although they sometimes seem to have favourites) and all could produce viable chicks.
We've had pure breeds and hybrids go broody. Silkies and Silkie crosses are supposed to be the most reliable broodies, but we've had Black Rocks go broody, even though they aren't supposed to.
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Thanks - by hybrids I meant the Black Rock, Sussex Star and Bluebelle as much as the BHWT girls, I had heard that BR were infertile hybrids and wondered if all hybrids were or why BR are?
Re the rest, I do sell eggs and with another 3 girls laying in spring I don't want to give that up ;) so will try and keep the new 4 separate and leave the 8 layers laying safely :) Maybe I'll be lucky and get some purebred Ari babies :) but I can sell all the rest and use the green/blue ones myself if not :)
Thanks, that's my plan sorted then - will see if George will comply ;)
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I don't think any of the hybrids are infertile - they won't breed true though ie a BR hen and a BR cockerel (if you could get one) won't produce more Black Rocks.
Good luck with George ;D
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he's a very good looking bird! just had a wee nosey in the marketplace at your pictures!
and if it was up to me - i would let them all run together and see what happens, because they are green egglayers you will know what eggs will be true.
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I lifted this quote from the Broad Leys Publishing website. This makes it look as though it only applies to "Registered Poultry Keepers".
If hens are running with a cock the chances are that they will be laying fertile eggs. These should not be offered for sale for they cause offence to many consumers. Registered producers are required by the egg marketing regulations to produce eggs with, ‘a yolk that is free of foreign bodies’.
Dave
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Hmm, guess all my customers are thick skinned then ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D Or really really really love the eggs! ::) ;D
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Foreign bodies?!
That's what an egg is designed for, to carry the embryo chick! how can that be classed as a foreign body?
Humans that think they rule the world ::)
;)
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I got told that those little dark spots in the eggs, which i presumed were the embryo, are in fact blood spots and can occur in unfertilised eggs too and that you can't see the few cells that will become the embryo in an unincubated egg.
So if you can't see anything i guess you can sell them.
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I've only ever heard this thing about not selling eggs from hens running with a cockerel on this forum. Anybody want to flag up where in any actual legislation this is stated? Sounds like BS to me.
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Its in lots of books & websites...
just can't see it trawling through DEFRA regs (I got bored!)
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Well, I had a trawl.
As ever with Defra, the info is opaque, muddled, knitted across Defra, Business Link, Directgov and other websites, largely unfathomable and generally lacking in any useful detail.
However, as far as I can tell, the regs seem to have moved on since Katie Thear wrote in her excellent book Free-Range Poultry that we must not sell fertilised eggs for eating.
There is a lot of stuff about Class A eggs, which is what I think you need to be able to classify your eggs as if you are selling eating eggs formally in any way other than directly to the consumer. And maybe if you have more than 350 laying hens too. If in doubt, please do your own research!
Even for Class A classification, there is nothing much to be found about fertilised or not. Just above where it says 'no foreign bodies', it says 'imperceptible germ'. I imagine they mean 'germ' as in embryo, and not 'germ' as in bacterium or other disease-inducing body! So I conclude this phrase means that no-one could detect the embryo. It also stipulates that the eggs must be offered for sale no more than 21 days after laying; in order to use the phrase 'Extra' or 'Extra Fresh', this reduces to 4 days after laying, or possibly 9 but you must read it yourself if this will matter to you.
The document with the most detail in is this one:
http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/264/132/EMR1.pdf (http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/264/132/EMR1.pdf) as of 18th Dec 2011 - please start your own adventure game of Seeking Egg Marketing Rules through the Defra World of Opacity and Obfuscation if you are reading this after 19th Dec 2011.
I nominate myself for the Accidental Smallholder Selfless Action Award for December. :D
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I,ve always kept a cockerel and sold my eggs and nobody has complained yet. Mind you, I don't sell eggs that are more than a week old, maybe that makes a difference.(Though I have never seen anyhing untoward in older eggs either)
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Well, I had a trawl.
I nominate myself for the Accidental Smallholder Selfless Action Award for December. :D
In the absence of any other nominations daft enough to even try I award you the trophy! ;D ;D ;D :trophy:
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I definitely award you the trophy - fancy reading DEFRA regs voluntarily :trophy: :D