The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Community => Coffee Lounge => Topic started by: RUSTYME on November 20, 2011, 04:36:10 pm
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Ok , so nobody knows what is going to happen when the system crashes , ( we are at the start of it now ! ) , or to what degree the changes will be .
To many people in the world , things will carry on as normal . But to most in the uk , things will be very different indeed .
I just wondered what people on here were planning to do , if anything ?
Sit and wait for it to all blow over ?
Sit and wait for the end ? Or just pretend that it is all ok and things will carry on as they are , till the shtf !
As you all know by now , i will just roll up in a ball and wait for the end !
But what will you do ?
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I'm with you Rusty, if I have enough time to release my animals to the wild I will, but if not I'll turf every bit of food I can find out into the paddock and let them free in there, then curl up into that ball. :-[ :-[
But I am an ostrich.
It will never happen! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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im not so sure the worlds gonna end! but i do think that there will be a major change in how the world is organised and i think that that means we will all have to become alot more self reliant, i judge my efforts on how long i could feed and warm myself for without having to go to the shop and without eleccy, i believe that communities will pull together when they need to, and we WILL get thro!! you never know, maybe these 'occupy' demonstrations are a sign of this starting.
my daughter whos nearly 12 is my inspiration, she can track game and grow veg, shes not a bad shot either.
there is always hope!!!
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I don't think the end of the world is happening either , but i am 99% sure that the system is about to collapse , somewhat like the twin towers , and therefore the unsustainable consumer/£ driven economy will end . What happens then is what i am curious about .
Not a lot changes for me really . I have 3-6 months tinned/dried food in store, which is why i wasn't too bothered when the cows ate this years veg !
I already live with almost no money , and i am not relient on the system for much at all really , although i do need my eyes testing and new specs , bugger !
If i had to , i could easily survive off the land , just eating what i could find in hedges/woodland etc , but i don't think many could . Will it come to that ? ? ?
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I'm just plodding away at trying to develop the skills that I'll need to be self sufficient I such as husbandry, butchering, veg growing, preserving food without using electricity, generating my own electricity, coppice crafts etc.
We are on LPG and one of the things I would like to do is to start accumulating a store of LPG. Currently one bottle lasts us about a year.
Hopefully we will get PVs, solar panels and a ground source heat pump. My biggest ambition would be to get the ground source heat pump running off the PVs and developing/affording a way of storing electricity rather than being attached to grid. We are also looking at wind and hydro. We have some (but limited) capacity for generating electricity this way. I want to learn to make wind turbine blades.
I strongly agree with DitW - we (our lane) will pull together as a community. We probably have enough expertise between us (about 20 of us all told) to be self sufficient and protect each other. Everybody has land and livestock, private water, LPG, some forestry for coppicing etc etc.
I think about this issue frequently
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sq, knowledge is power!
ive now got a small pot bellied woodburner in the kitchen and its easier to cook on, so all my heating and cooking could be without electricity. but my water is pumped up using electric so a water supply is my next concern.
my decision to take on this house was definitley influenced by the pending economic crisis, ive sort of known something was coming for about the last ten years and the skill set ive sought has been based around self sufficiency. i just dont get electricity tho, scary stuff :D but im learning!
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A small wind/water driven pump, would pump enough water. Lpg is good , as long as it is available and affordable.
Pv panels are ok at the moment , as long as you can afford both them and the batteries ? Wind or water would be better way to produce leccy if the shtf big time . Both can be made and repaired diy , pv and bats are a different matter . Wood for heat and cooking is far easier to do than making huge amounts of leccy. Willow will supply your baskets and wood for cooking etc .
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I'm keen to take as much advantage of modern technology as I can but be mindful of the fact that we may not have petrol and electricity forever so - learning how to cut trees down by hand and milling/grinding my own corn etc ..... and getting good tools now that are built to last before they start to become premium items etc.
I can make my own charcoal and can forge metal a bit - I'm no blacksmith!! but I can mend tools and peen a blade
Oddly enough - all the technology for pulling up water without leccy is avaiable hand over fist from charities operating to assist small farmers overseas.
I'm going to look into that
Good idea DitW :D :D
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I'm lucky enough to have been taught foraging by my late father, and am a dab hand at native medicinal herbs. We wont starve, hubby taught survival skills in the services so shelter isnt a problem!
Fear is what is going to cripple most people, and I truly hope that those with the skills and knowledge will help out those who dont. People are fast learners when they need to be ;)
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Bearing all this in mind, especially helping folk out, is there any way that we could set up a system to communicate with each other on here?
We're all of a similar viewpoint so can 'owt be done?
Ian
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I grow wilow for basket making , firewood and charcoal , which fuels the forge . Spruce etc will make charcoal for a forge but may not get hot enough to smelt iron in a small foundry , although i have smelted aluminium with softwood charcoal .
I grow an old variety of wheat for flour and for thatching straw . Barley , oats and rye are easy to grow to , although i live at nearly 900 ft so it is touch and go with the wheat.
For cutting down trees , a 30" bow saw works very well as long as you dö't want to cut down huge oaks , use a good axe or two man crosscut saw for big stuff .
Old hand tools are still easy to get , but avoid chinese crap , they fall to bits !
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Bearing all this in mind, especially helping folk out, is there any way that we could set up a system to communicate with each other on here?
We're all of a similar viewpoint so can 'owt be done?
Ian
Semaphore? ;D
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recycled tin cans and a rather long piece of string??
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Pigeons !
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OK, I'll get my dogs to catch a few - chap who built this house bred the damn things and left a few behind when he moved ::) ;D
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We are more or less self sufficient now.
We grow all our veg with plenty to sell, more next year as we have now accumulated ploughing and harvesting gear. And collect as much of our own seed as poss.
Meat...We have one rule if it does not produce we dont keep it. So we have geese, turkeys, hens ducks, sheep, and goats for meat. Rabbits also a plenty. Pasture pigs soon.
Fish... We have our own sea fishing boat and a trout burn. We also have creels
Eggs... plenty to sell and eat.
Milk. Cheese etc again the goats.
Fuel we have our own peat banks which can last us a good deal of the year. Fuel for the tractor, boat and car.mmmm We did downsize the car to a runabout as the tractor does the heavy work and the car runs forever on a tank of fuel.
Hay and silage.. we do our own, more fodder crops to be grown next year hopefully.
Water . we are on mains but the crofter before us had a well built by the water folk which we plan to use in the future.
Booze, one of the more important things!!! so the next step we are brewing our own as we have now got all the gear together.
Preserves ..all our own with enough to sell as well.
Leccy ,, our only reliance but use very little as we dont do gadgets and if it was not for the freezers could easily go off grid. But we are looking at a private use turbine. A rayburn does the water ,most of the heat and the cooking.
So we would do pretty well looking after ourselves. No mortgage, loans, cards etc and no commercialism here so money spending is at a minimum . And only two bedrooms so NO! just joking anyone welcome anytime.
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What a depressing read this thread is. You have gone into a tailspin Just because a few disgruntled students camp out side a high profile establishment to complain about the system that gives them their weekly handout , ( did you notice that they all had new tents? ) and as usual one of these idle wasters has to pick up his guitar and sing his stupid protest song,, they make no contribution at all to the society they complain about , yet they think they have the right to disrupt other peoples lives. Stick them in uniform and let them negotiate with the Taliban , perhaps they could sing them into changing their ways.
As for the oil shortage, what oil shortage? the Falkland war was only engaged because of the vast reserves that are there, they haven't even begun to explore Brazil and the rest of South America yet,
The European economic situation is unsustainable in it's present form , mainly because of wastage by bureaucracy and mismanagement by Brussels , as for member states with financial difficulties then cast out not bail out should be the order of the day.
And as for our own government -------If they stopped giving away billions to third world dictators to buy arms with then they wouldn't have to steal the pensioners heating allowance ( over 65s lost £50, over 80s lost £100 this year ), how are they expected to cope when the winter bites.
If you have running water on your land then you can rig up a car alternator to provide you with 12v lighting , it's good enough for sheds,
Yes , be self sufficient
Yes , be independent.
No , the world isn't ending, just evolving a bit more, Our grand parents and parents went through much worse.
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Here, here, tizaala :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Tiz, have you ever considered standing for Parliament? We would all vote for you. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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I thought this post was more tongue in cheek than that serious. Not depressing just a scenario.
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I thought this post was more tongue in cheek than that serious. Not depressing just a scenario.
That was my impression too - which is why I added the comment about semaphore and pigeons! ;D ;D ;D
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im not depressed!!! i think its quite exciting really!!
i agree, that my grandparents and great grandparents had much more to deal with, its just a shame that all the baby boomers jumped on the debt merry go round and left that as an inheritance for future generations. ive enver had a loan in my life or a credit card, and guess what, i couldnt get one if i wanted one because ive no proven credit history. daft really. ;D
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When the ship hits the fan ? ;)
I've got my eye on the pair of scribble serpents that live next door :wave: , all knives in the knife block are razor sharp and I have three 25 kg bags of gritting salt to salt them down , plus I have several kg of honey and a brick built barbie . :yum:
I'll get my own back for them bullying verball abusing & trying to intimidate me for being disabled and struggling to try and do things.
Revenge is sweet and best eaten cold ;D
If the old cow is too tough I'll feed it to their dog and then eat that when she's all gone .
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a dog is for any day of the week not just for xmas ;D
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:DThats what started the problem .
I was hacked off at her turning it out letting her mutt yap itself bloody stupid at all hours of the day or night.
I asked her to get it under control or let me have it for my mutt's dinner , because the incessant yapping was destroying the quality of my life and that of the neighbours.
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I guess that we are all agreeing that the outcome of the current economic crisis will result in great social change. Just like the end of communism a few years back. Such a dramatic change was generally welcomed in the east because they had little and saw the potential for better quality of lives. Now ( across Europe) the change is not welcome but feared because it will worsen quality of life for millions. How will urban populations react ?
I have witnessed frightening behaviour at Tescos when an oil strike limited what was on the supermarket shelves.
I agree that many of us have the inclination and skills to try and be as independent as possible. We could even do without our laptop and this web site. My worry is how the great unwashed will stomach the pending social change and any likely crisis such as rationing of power or fuel.
I would suggest that putting a few days walking distance between ourselves and large urban ( supermarket dependant) areas could be sensible.
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I would suggest that putting a few days walking distance between ourselves and large urban ( supermarket dependant) areas could be sensible.
A good idea in theory but in practice you'd need to sell your present property to one of the great unwashed ;) and be able to afford something suitable. Unfortunately not an option fro me, so I guess I'll just need to dig a moat and pout in spikes. ;D ;D ;D
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The thing is , nobody knows what is about to happen . But it is certain that there are huge changes on the way .
For those in the mock , ridicule and attack brigade , which usually , but not always , includes the nonbelievers , good luck to them , and i genuinely hope they are right . I , however , think they couldn't be more wrong if they tried .
But they are entitled to their opinion as am i .
I live the way i do because i want to , it is that simple . It just so happens that if things do go tits up , my way of life would be nearer the new norm , than it is to the norm that most live now .
Why do the m, r, a, brigade feel the need to take the piss out of those that take precautions against events they think are likely to happen ?
I bet most , if not all , of the m , r , a , brigade ,have car , house , life insurance ? Is that not the same thing ? , just they are doing it with money .
If reading something depresses me , i just don't read it ! I go dig the veggie plot , perhapse the m, r , a , brigade should go earn even more money to buy even more stuff and more financial security , and they , like me , wouldn't have time to be depressed .
Cheers russ
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Yep - but if you can sell up in these hard times then it is easy to find what you need for a small holding in a VERY rural area.
We got away from semi urban life ( Cambridge) last year. With little spare cash we bought a house and 2 sod off big barns with all the land we need for our small holding. In France ! We do not have a pool but a great piggery, full cellar and barn full of food for the winter. All in 8 months.
It is far easier to live the life we all aspire to here because land is cheap and there are so many homes for sale ( the young people prefer towns and not the old ways of near self sufficiency). Markets sell all animals,feed, tools etc for the rural life and locals embrace and welcome our efforts.
What an escape and just in time.
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As you say , just in time !
I wish i was that brave ! Plus i only have 6 acres in wales , literally not a penny to my name , so i will have to sit it out where i am .
No pool though ! How do you cope ? lol .
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Just for you Rusty...and anyone else who wants a gander!
http://www.aermotorwindmill.com/Links/Education/windmill_movie.asp (http://www.aermotorwindmill.com/Links/Education/windmill_movie.asp)
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Bugger ! Cheers mate , but i am only on here via an old mobile phone now , can't load many sites . I only get 2 meg download per day . Thanks anyway mate . How's things ?
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Just for you Rusty...and anyone else who wants a gander!
http://www.aermotorwindmill.com/Links/Education/windmill_movie.asp (http://www.aermotorwindmill.com/Links/Education/windmill_movie.asp)
I just got a big red page
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The link worked for me :thumbsup:
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Screen drop
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Hi Rusty, Like the rest of the smallholding community, we are struggling in the face of adversity!! Thanks doganjo for posting the pics!
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Yes , not the best time to have a big mortgage or loans as some do . The cost of fuel , feed etc will brlng many down .
I think it will soon be a case of only keeping stock that can be fed with crops grown on the holding . Cost of fuel making bagged feed too dear very soon .
The really big farmers will maybe get by longer , on the to big to fail basis . Heads down and keep out of the spotlight time , me thinks !
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If it gets that bad
;) Find a cave with running water in the back and learn which roots you can grub out and eat raw . Keep a big supply of fleece or off the wire pickings so you can have a form of bog paper & some thing to make clothes out of .
Learn how to make an atal atal and become proficient in its use.
Locate a source of flint and mug up on flint knapping .
Start make a big pile of gorse so you can block the cave entrance
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you need a licence to extract water from the ground and they cost money :farmer:
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isnt there an exemption under a certain vol of litres per day? we certainly dont have a licence for our well but it is our only supply?
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a well may be different but drilling down to the water table especially in England would require a licence we had 2 wells on our farm one dried up in dry weather the other kept on running water in 1976 almost to the drought ended :farmer:
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I'll let others do the cave thing , if they must !
I have done the 'live off the land ' bit , years ago . Would do it if there was no choice , but otherwise i would rather just grow what i need !
You only need a licence to extract water if you use a huge amount , unless new laws have come in ? But 'they' only know about it if you tell them !
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the bucket and rope liscence :D
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But 'they' only know about it if you tell them !
Or if you stick up a dirty great windmill I suppose! ;)
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Today's headlines indicate you on the other side of the Atlantic are preparing for riots when the Euro collapses.
I have read this thread with great interest. There are those of us over here that are hoping for the best but prepariing for the worst.
Yes, life will go on no matter what. But I would like to have some of the necessary things on hand if and when the SHTF.
I think there will be major disruptions to the supply chain (temporary). I know how quickly things disappear at the grocery store when the weatherman calls for a few inches of snow. So it only makes sense to me to have a few weeks (at least!) of supplies layed in.
My family makes fun of me all the time.
God Bless!
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could you link us up to 'todays headlines' please?
whats americashire been saying about us now!!
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Hope these work. A good source for current headlines is the Drudge Report. That's all it shows, headline links to other sources.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/27/us-eurozone-integration-ecb-idUSTRE7AQ00F20111127 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/27/us-eurozone-integration-ecb-idUSTRE7AQ00F20111127)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/26/business/global/banks-fear-breakup-of-the-euro-zone.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/26/business/global/banks-fear-breakup-of-the-euro-zone.html?hp)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8917077/Prepare-for-riots-in-euro-collapse-Foreign-Office-warns.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8917077/Prepare-for-riots-in-euro-collapse-Foreign-Office-warns.html)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8917161/OECD-figures-suggest-Britains-economy-will-slip-back-into-recession-at-the-start-of-next-year.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8917161/OECD-figures-suggest-Britains-economy-will-slip-back-into-recession-at-the-start-of-next-year.html)
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from the telegraph
Diplomats have also been told to prepare to help tens of thousands of British citizens in eurozone countries with the consequences of a financial collapse that would leave them unable to access bank accounts or even withdraw cash.
thats interesting.
i think closer intergration is more likely.
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nearly 3 years is a long time to remember an exact chain of events if dementia has not set in it was the American finances that kicked it all off with a run on European banks the respective country's bolstered the banks who are now in the position of controlling what happens in Europe and what of America the country that kicked it all off at present it would appear to be the strongest of them all eh how does that work :farmer:
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From a site I frequent here in the US....we are following this just as you are. With more questions than answers.
I find it unusual that that the UK governement is "publicizing" this. It seems for once a government is "ahead of the curve" instead of merely reactionary. I know that the people of the UK are very much against going down with the rest of Europe and now very relieved they never went to the Euro. I wonder if this is to "show" the UK citizens that their heads aren't buried in the sand. Which smacks of self preservation.
As to the worldwide implications, it is IMHO a dominoe affect. If Europe goes, it brings down China as who would they sell their goods to? (other than the US whose purchases are of cheaper products). I would then wonder if the Chinese wouldn't call all of the US debt that they own... and that raises the bigger questions..
Would the US then reneg on it's debt obligations? and if so what would this do to economic confidence worldwide? or would the US "print away"?
Short term affects would decrease prices in the US but long term, with everything being imported and nothing produced here I think we would see shortages of everything from food to critical equipment for infratstructure and production.
How long would it take to re-start US manufacturing and could/would companies do that in the current political climate and US "leadership" (i.e. regulation)?
Most of the US lives on the "just in time" delivery method. Most distribution centers hold a three week supply. Then what?
If and it's a big IF, the Chinese remain somewhat polictially stable we might get resupplied, if they don't and deliveries stop the supply chain dries up.
This line of thinking also presupposes that local and federal officials don't try a power grab for the remaining resources.
Sorry, I've spent a bit too much of free time this weekend, contemplating the what if's of the future and how to prepare myself for them .
Bluesgal, interesting reasoning. Just one aside, the Chinese cannot simply "call" in their debt. They own treasuries, which have a maturation date. They can try to sell them off, but they know that trying to sell a huge amount of treasuries at once would cause the price to drop. they cannot call in their debt anymore than a bank can 'call in' your mortgage and force you to pay it all at once. When they bought the treasuries they agreed to the terms.
But if they did decide to sell off all their US treasuries, would the fed step in and print the money to buy them in order to keep the treasuries from dropping ( and the interest on that debt from spiking) most definitely YES, IMO.
God only knows what impact that would have on our economy long and short term. There is another scenario as well, perhaps money would flood INTO the US if we are perceived as being relatively stable. The US dollar is considered a safe haven currency in most parts of the world.
Even with all our problems, we might end up being the tallest midget on the block.
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The recent riots in the uk were at best highly dubious , at worst an orchastrated trial run , set up by tptb . Nothing about the whole thing rang true .
As for riots in the new year , yes it looks more likely than not ! The euro seems about ready to collapse and the swhtf very soon after , possibly within hours ! The question is , is the euro collapse also planned ?
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If the Euro does collapse, it will get a lot of very big players off some awfully big debts. What do France and Germany do if they get Greece, Italy, Spain and Ireland all saying "so sue me"?
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WW 3 simples ! Then all problems are solved !
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All is well!!!! :-\
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8919470/IMF-drawing-up-517bn-package-to-save-Italy-Spain-and-the-euro.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8919470/IMF-drawing-up-517bn-package-to-save-Italy-Spain-and-the-euro.html)
Or NOT????? :-\
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/d9a299a8-1760-11e1-b00e-00144feabdc0.html (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/d9a299a8-1760-11e1-b00e-00144feabdc0.html)
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The rhetoric has changed somewhat . They are all talking about 'if' the euro crashes ,some even saying 'when' , without correction !.
But the overall mood projected , seems to be , acceptance of the fact , that it will fail .
Merkel has now said for a third time , that peace cannot be guaranteed if the euro fails , and thus the eu ? Mind games ? , warnings ? , threats ?
The sh*t has started to fly , just a matter of waiting for it to hit the fan now !
Cheers russ
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WW 3 simples ! Then all problems are solved !
You don't mean ..surely not , do you really mean ... Iran solves the worlds debt crisis . ;)
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If the Euro fails then the EU will fail, we will then return to independant states with with propper borders and custom posts, Brussels will no longer be in control and we can go backwards 60 years to the Halcyon days of british agriculture when we made the rules and regs up, and those foreign countries the other side of our defensive moat kept their noses out of our business.................ok, .....I can dream, can't I ?
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Looks as if we all get a bit of breathing room for a while. More bailouts means more time for the "pressure" to build before the SHTF.
In the end...what a mess!
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I share that dream too T , sadly i don't think it can happen . To much corruption and too much power to give up .
If it wasn't so dire desperate and plain bloody scary , it would be funny . Bailout after bailout and still 'they' refuse to se that it just aint working , and never can .
So the only thing left is ww3 . All the big bankers do what they did in ww1 and ww2 , fund both/all sides , big business makes money making weapons and mp's retain their illusion of power , and the world population gets knocked back by a few billion .
Iran has been on the cards since bush and blair . What a godsend it must be for the war mongers , swhtf sometime soon.
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Boom and bust is to some extent a purposefully manufactured scenario and at the very least a side situation that is used to plump up someone's wallet, You'll probably find that there has never been a director made bankrupt because their company has gone under. The creation of headless companies and the removal of responsibility from those running companies, given a legal identity of their own, is whats the farce.
I dont think world production and its ability to live through 'this' will end if 'their' markets collapse. We are never going to be in a situation when crazies from the cities are plundering our farms and land scavenging for food (as most of them would die searching an empty tesco cos thats where they think food grows + I've seen it on zombie movies) - and the rest of the rich will certainly not fancy coming out 'these parts' and fighting for their next meal as they know they would be the first to get banged on the head or strangled by their ties - so 'they' wont let their monitory system collapse as they know this is the only way they can keep the power.
We have seen countries where the money system has gone - has it lead to anachy? No.
Baz
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Angela Merkel is playing a dangerous game, she is trying to do what Boneparte and Hitler tried to do with force but failed. why would the eu failed if the euro failed? it seemed to be doing fine before the euro came along, and it would do fine without it again, this is enormous scare mongering to set germany up as the lead state in a unified federal europe, which I for one would oppose with all my strength.
keep the EU but do we really need tighter fiscal union, federal europe is what it will become if we went down that road, let the likes of Greece fail and return to it's native currency, it should not have been allowed to join in the first place.
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This is exactly what the eu is about , total control . It has been the main aim since it began . If you look back at the leaders who set it up , they even said so . The German leadership will try it's utmost to gain complete control , even using the threat of war !
Still , Cameron can repatriate powers to the Uk , what a load of shite that is , what powers ?
The only ones that toss pot could get back are those that Merkel decided to give .
The total control that the EU/Germany is now openly after , as i said , is what the EU is about , and finally , people are starting to realize this . Lets hope the awakening isn't too late !
Libyans at least had some weapons , plus the no fly zone !! , what would we have ? Who would help us ?
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i heard portillo last night ,hinting that the recent explosions at various iranian military sites, one, he mentioned, had killed 17 iranian troops, signalled the start of an iranian 'solution', this, coupled with the diplomatic expulsions today, suggest a deep british involvment in the, i believe, imminent iranian regime change.
i think the now obvious european re-negotiation of the treatise, is just the distraction. We're going to war again.
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DITW thats exactly what i thought the news is being wound up to a crescendo against Iran so we can go do to them what has been done in both Iraq & Afghanistan, The US has always wanted to stuff Iran and i think they're using the British govt to kick it all off. Call me cynical but its coming, i fell so sorry for our poor armed forces who are stretched as it is, off to order the army wives single now, lets hope they all get home safe for xmas.
Europe don't get me started germany once again is sabre rattling but i don't think it will amount to much thye're just sh@@ting bricks becoz they're knacker deep in loans for the euro.
Mandy :pig:
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The Iran situation is a bit of a red herring in the currency hoohaa. With both Bush and Blair gone no-one has the money or interest in a shooting match with Iran cos it would be very messy. That is except Israel who should not be underestimated. Fact is that the Arab states are all worried by Iran but won't/can't do anything except squabble until something kicks off. Russia has been playing an interesting game of supporting Iran as the main actor in destabilising western interests.
Sovereign debt isn't like commercial debt because taking territory by force isn't a solution any more. Until very recently any bank which lent to or bought bonds issued by an OECD country didn't need to hold capital against them because the regulators said OECD countries were risk free. Banks have to hold the increasingly large amounts of capital they're required to have as investments in something, generally their own country's bonds, but if they operate in lots of countries it makes sense to invest in other governments as well. Or it did, and certainly to the regulators.
There is no mechanism for the Euro to unwind, collapse or fire a member. Booting out Greece would be technically straightforward. Mrs Merkel calls a press conference at 0700 and announces that Greece left last night. That will be the first the Greeks have heard of it, and whilst illegal it would be a case of "yeah right, sue me". But Greek bonds would be valueless immediately so all the banks, pension funds and so on holding the crap would have to write-off 100%. Painful but not terminal, and you can be certain someone's already printed a big stock of Drachma notes in case. However that doesn't work for Italy. The scale is too large. A pile of banks/pension funds/insurance companies would go bust because of the bond default, and a larger pile of the same would go bust because of their exposure to the first lot of banks etc. Northern Rock's place in history would then merely be as the first of hundreds.
Banks go bust because of liquidity, or rather the lack of it. When you keep money in a current or savings account you generally have access to it on demand. The bank, however, lends it out to people for much longer terms. The mis-match works because people don't take their money out, they leave it there so they can pay bills etc. It's only when they all decide together to remove their dosh that there's a problem. In the Rock's case they also borrowed on scale from the money markets who don't need to queue around the block to ask for their cash back.
The current financial crash actually started in January 2007 when HSBC announced a big problem with mortgage lending in the States. Because HSBC is seriously big (and quite good at risk) nobody worried about them (correctly as it happens). That was the earthquake that started the tidal wave that took 18 months to get noticed. But Fred Goodwin was lobbying Alastair Darling at Xmas 2007 about liquidity. Mind you the stupid bugger had already bought ABN by that point. So they knew the wheels were coming off a full year before it happened and the FSA as regulator merely invested in sleeping tablets. Btw, anybody else notice that Goodwin's initials are FAG? Not as funny as Boris Johnson's, perhaps, but rather more culpable. Is he still living in Edinburgh?
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Well the rhetoric has been quietly uped , with mention of live amunition being used to protect life in certain arson cases . Much more to that than it would seem at first .
But it does come in time for 2012 . A whole load of banks are set to go down the pan , on a huge scale . The scale of these collapses are far bigger than anything so far . Spain looks set to be the starting place , but a number of countries could get there first .
So , armed forces readying for civil unrest , the police being part of it too , the euro about to collapse anytime , what will be the result ? , and when will tshtf ?
2012 , olympics year ! , mmmm , 13,000 armed troops in London , plus the RAF ready for action at Northolt airport ( i grew up right next to it ), plus the 20,000 ? Police , also armed ? And the 23,000 security people , the clues are there !
I might get a tv so i will at least know if tshtf !
Cheers Russ
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And there was me thinking this site was about smallholding ::)
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If this lot kicks off, Life will be about smallholding!! :o
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so now the british police will be able to use live rounds against arsonists, as well as baton rounds and water cannons.
proof if needed that the riots were provoked for a reason.
im having trouble believing that you can now be shot dead in britain for throwing a molly!
thats my saturday nights ruined :D
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for throwing a molly!
What is a molly?
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Molotov cocktail :farmer:
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The European Central Bank has just opened the money taps, but only to the banks. So the banks shouldn't go bust but the countries in which they are based still might.
How that works is a mystery
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498 billion, i think today, low interest over 3 years, i think.
well someones gotta pay for xmas
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Seems like they are getting desperate , but still not doing enough . Still when tshtf properly , it looks like they are just going to shoot us all anyway ! Time to ready the mollies ! Mind you , how much is petrol now £1.40 ish a ltr ? Cheaper to buy an ak47 . Think i will just hide on my bit of land and shoot any f**ker who steps foot on it , with my long bow,
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Strangely enough I was just thinking I must get my own long bow though perhaps I might be better with the Hungarian sort, composite and designed for use on horseback, at least I know I can use one of those. However, there is a a set of plans on Instructables for making your own long bow.
Alan
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But you have to admit, as bad as it is and it's worse for some more than others, if you would have posted all this 'stuff' and were living in some countries in the world you would not be there for long.
How about not worrying about something that you can't do sod all about and get on with our lives ;)
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Problem is it can all sneak up and bite you in the bum.
Best Alan
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Who is worried ? Not me for one , and i don't think anyone else is either . I am concerned though ,
but that doesn't stop me from living my life perfectly normally ,nor does it stop me from talking about certain concerns .
We can't do anything about the weather , but we stil discuss it . The weather forecast can help us decide what to do or to prepare for a storm . I would much rather be prepared for a storm than to sit there with my thumb up my arse , but each to their own . For those that don't want to know the weather , don't watch the forecast !
As for not being able to talk about certain things in some countries well , i am not there , so i can talk about any subject i like . Although there are people that would like to prevent that freedom . Freedom of speech ,as long as you only talk about what they decide it is ok to talk about .
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Only having access to radio 4 now , i get a slightly skewed version of world news . So if tshtf anytime soon , i will only know about it when Mel Gibbson , aka mad Max , comes round the corner , closely followed by Tina Turner on her leccy scooter .
So was wondering what people thought about what is going on regarding economic collapse etc .
I think it is much closer now , but what do i know ?
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its just pure fudging fudge atm russ!
im more interested in iran, reckon thats next. enough posturing going on by us and them!
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Big bang on its way over there I reckon, Ditw :'( Not sure that what Russ and others like him will be of any use to be honest.
Fizzing mad that RBS are paying £1m to that dope with MY money!!! And so so sad that Andy Murray lost his match today! GQT was good though!
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at least some old skills and knowledge are being kept alive and rediscovered, ive a few friends doing the same down here and ive learnt loads from them.
the iranian oil embargo has yet to have an effect but when it does prices are going to rocket, and irans going to lose 40% (ithink) of its income.they must be worried, or they wouldnt have threatened to block the route.
rbs? are you really suprised?
ditto andy murray :D :D
gqt WAS good!! tho i didnt catch the name of the sweetcorn variety they talked about.....
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aye but he is getting better Annie
oil is power hence Iran and the Falkland isles
still say the banks should not have been bailed out it is now the money men that control everything :farmer:
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I agree with Rusty - its good to talk about such things - my dad and uncles talked politics all the time and were passionate about freedom of speech. In those days people discussed politics and religion. Now they discuss "Strictly ...something or other".
I am not sure that we need to worry about Iran as Israel has that covered. You watch - a few more motorbike riders will take out any "brains" working on their nuclear capability but if not the feeling there is so strong that Israel will strike first. Iran is pledged to the destruction of Israel and all Jews ( as is most of the middle east) but Israel will not let this happen.
I see Argentians are burning the UK flag and jumping up and down about the Falklands. If things get tough for DC then maybe he will open up a western front in this year of great national celebration. Maggie T did well out of a bit of nationalistic further so maybe DC will do the same when the sh_it hits the fan in the UK.
If you feel that Radio 4 gives a scew on world politics then maybe watch Al Jazeera or Russia ;)Today. Very refreshing
Happy to offer these comments from a very rural and isolated La Creuse ( the Dig) , Limousin !
Good luck there!!
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I thought that they said that the eu bought 20% of Iranian oil ? Whatever , the thing is 'they' are continuing to ramp up the pressure on iran and something has to go pop soon .
The money men have been in the driving seat for some time now . Just look at who/what David Camerons dad was . Same with Nick Cleggs dad and grand dad .
They are all corrupt , and the only time they will stop thieving money from the UK people , is when they are found swinging by a rope from a handy lamp post !
That reminds me , must make plenty of strong rope this year !
Common Purpose in charge of security at the olympics this year , buildaburgers (sp) in charge of the UK and the EU , Greece the EU (Germany) and the money men in a 3 way mexican standoff , (merkel using a predator style mini gun ) ,2012 is going to be a BIG year. Big fan , lots of s**t !
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Have a friend who has a very good friend in the high military. He told me that the apparent 'knee-jerk' reaction on firearms legislation, after the terrible incidents at Hungerford and then Dunblaine, was nothing of the sort. There was a real worry that the biggest threat to National Security was from an organised Public uprising resulting from a real perceived decline in living standards and personnal freedom. With legally held firearms outnumbering the combined Armed Forces by 10 to 1, a successful uprising could be imminent. They couldn't remove the firearms without good reason, as that action may trigger an uprising in itself. The rest is history. The arms balance has now swung the other way and the Establishment feels safe.
What else is going on in the background?
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Syria!!
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Their sense of security is unfounded .
Since allowlng all and sundry free access to the former UK , weapons have become easier and cheaper than ever to aquire.
They are also not taking into account the many thousands of pissed off ex military that they treat like crap !, not forgetting the thousands more that they are at this moment getting shot of .
The recent so called 'riots' were just orchastrated excuses to apply new laws , that allow the people of the UK to be shot , along with many other laws that show that tptb are kacking their pants , and so they should , swhtf soon ! .
I am just glad i am reasonably out of any danger zone !
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The talking heads in the media seem to be preparing us here in the US for "riots" this spring.
I too am glad I am in a rural area. (btw and completely off topic, anyone read One Second After? Great read, thought provoking
I'm not sure who is behind all of this (ie Occupy Wall Street from earlier this year). I tend to doubt it is spontaneous gatherings of truly devoted commies. Instead I believe these folks are merely puppets (whether they know it or not) that are being used for a pupose beyond their angst and boredom.
I continue to find this thread interesting.
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I called my stockbroker the other day and asked him what I should buy.
He said that if the current government is in power for much longer I should invest in
tinned goods
bottled water
a generator
a gun and plenty of amo
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is that the french government or the British government :farmer:
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Yes YG , TPTB , are carrying out covert ops on a grand scale . So much so that it is impossible to tell which actions are genuine anymore .
Not being a team player myself , i watch from the sideline , and act or react , as i see fit .
My lifestyle is very different from the norm . This is not due to the pending mayhem , but just due to me wanting something different from the insanity that has become the norm .
It just so happens that my way of life has inadvertantly , prepared me for what seems to be just around the corner.
Maybe things will just keep on as they are now , if they do then the world truly is doomed .
Whatever happens , i will just keep watching and doing my own thing.
But if tshtf , then maybe my way of life becomes the norm ! I then have to try to help family , if they want help ? , and anyone else that needs help.
About 12 family members are semi prepared to come over if things get wobbly .
I just hope if/when the shtf , it does so in summer !
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But if tshtf , then maybe my way of life becomes the norm ! I then have to try to help family , if they want help ?
I've changed my way of thinking about food on my shelves. I keep my shelves stocked the way my mom did 40 years ago. Enough to last me a month without a trip to the store.
I don't think that is crazy. I don't think the world is coming to an end but I do for see a time of disruption. Caused by...I don't know. Stores carry 3 days worth of supplies (ever been to a Pennsylvania store the day before a forcast snow? haha I guess not.... Anyway no bread, milk, snack food.... That is a reaction to 4 inches of snow.
Amazing we live at a time when being prepared and living responsibly is scoffed at.
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its the 'just in time' rather than the old 'just in case' model of retailing.
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Not just scoffed at either YG , the mock , ridicule , attack brigade do exactly that . Why ? when most of them have one or more freezers , pay huge amounts into pension schemes , that are now all but worthless ! Yet still they take the p*ss !
The m,r,a brigade aren't worth argueing with , but i do have a dig back now and then !, i just feel sorry for them mainly , as it is their way of life that is totally unsustainable and about to fall to bits , money money money !
As you say yg , store as much as you can , then grow what you can , and enjoy life as best you can .
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I reckon a months supply gives you the time to keep your head down while everyone else loses theirs. And then get on with surviving. I was also taught that the three classes of investment assets in bad times were cash, canned food and cartridges, much as MAK said earlier.
I suspect the collapse of RBS - or indeed HBoS for that matter - would have been well beyond ugly riots in the streets. All the banks would close, the cash machines would stop and the card networks would close. A barter economy would take a while to get going, so people would have to steal to live. That would cause a lot of deaths as the police and army would be overwhelmed - and unpaid. You wouldn't need to pay back the mortgage, but the house might not survive.
Saw something in the papers today that said the head of Barclays was likely to get a £15m bonus. So how does this play? Labour hired Hester and agreed his contract, but want to have a vote to renege on it. So Hester quits RBS and gets hired by someone for a huge pay check plus no politics. The Tories then have to hire a replacement, but all the good guys say FO you gotta be kidding, so either they hire a bozo who blows it all to hell or they pay someone £15m salary no bonus, Either way we all lose.
Damn.
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As you say yg , store as much as you can , then grow what you can , and enjoy life as best you can .
I have read this thread with great interest and, despite it's age, consider it worth resurrecting... If only to find out if anyone has changed their viewpoint in the intervening period. :)
My viewpoint is coloured by the way I was raised and life experiences, and it has seen me through floods, power cuts and various other crises. Being prepared is common sense and having something as simple as a sandbag, to put down your toilet if there's a flood, can make a huge difference. ;)
I have no doubt that very rough times are in store over the next few years and no illusions that government help will be readily available. The advice given above is good, sound, extremely practical and well worth taking. :thumbsup:
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Crafty Soo , not changed my view at all on this , in fact i am even more certain that things will go tits up . It is the timing that is hard to predict .
The only answer 'they' can keep coming up with is 'print more money' , for yet another bailout .
These 'bailouts'? are now in the trillions of £/$/€ and still they think it will save the economy/euro/dollar etc .
Try to do the same with credit cards , it don't work !
Credit cards , mmmm debt cards in reality , but don't tell anyone .
Still , i keep my stores at about 6 months plus what veg i manage to grow , a bad year here so far !
Wood for heating etc i have plenty of , water from springs , no debt , no bills , and no jaw infection !
If we get through the olympics ok , then i think we have about 6-9 months before the real meltdown begins . All assuming that Israel (usa) doesn't hit Iran beforehand . I did think that tswhtf before the elections in the usa , it may well still do ! But so far so good , unless you live in Greece , Spain , Ireland , Italy .
Have come across a few mock , ridicule , attack individuals that followed the government brainwashing regime of blame everything on the disabled and unemployed who are now themselves unemployed . A couple have lost their new cars and their house , all the toys that huge money buys , they are not shouting so loud now ! In fact they are now shouting about how can they be expected to live on the paltry amount they get in benefits !
Even more are trying to sellup at huge loss .
Keep food cupboards full . Plenty of basics such as flour , rice , pasta , oats , peas , beans and veg like spuds , carrots , swede , enough for 3 months or so , plus as much tinned food as you can , and you will be ok for the winter at least .
In ww2 the motto was 'dig for victory' , now it should be 'dig for survival' .
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Thanks for responding RUSTYME.
I grew up with a store cupboard system because we often got snowed in and it is also the most economical way to feed a family. I carried on using one when I set up in my own home and always had a few months supplies. When the stock markets went mental in July 2007 I extended it to include grains for milling my own flour too. I also invested in several fruit trees, soft fruit bushes and turned my gardens over to vegetables.
The stock markets, casinos is a better word mind, have been artificially propped up since 2007. Economic collapse, on a global scale, is a foregone conclusion. I worked in finance for most of my life and it is mathematically impossible to expire the amount of debt in existence. If the banks had been allowed to fail and pay for their greed there would have been a much shorter, if harsher, period of hardship. Bail outs are just prolonging the process - you can't get out of a hole by digging deeper. ::)
I spent a couple of years trying to convince family and friends to prepare then just did my own thing. Over the last two years they've all come around to my way of thinking and decided I'm not 'crazy' after all. :D
Sorry to hear you've had a bad year so far, growing wise. My fruit has been loving the rain but I do wonder why my area still has a hose pipe ban! Luckily for me my friend has had success in the crops I have lost and vice versa, which is handy. I'm going to be dehydrating a lot of produce this year, for the first time, too. Using gadgets while I can but have contingency plans in place for dealing with power loss.
It's possible to heat a room and boil a kettle using tea-light candles, two bricks and a baking tray...can't remember exactly how many candles but about ten would do it. ;D Take care my friend. :wave:
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No probs cs ,
yes i often wonder if these so called geniuses that run the banks etc , the ones who command those obcene wages and bonuses , are as clever as the government think they are . If they were surely the world economy wouldn't be in the bottomless pit of doo doo that it is . Mind you they are clever enough to still get paid millions even after the crash and all the corruption shocks .
I have stepped off the system bit by bit and regret nothing , apart from not doing it years ago .
The system just cannot continue as is , when those running it are as corrupt as they are . Yet we in the uk allow them to continue , we even pay them to do so .
I am 54 and grew up in post war uk , when things were reletively normal . There were 9 in my family and not much money . I had 2 allotments when i was 11 , and they produced huge amounts of veg that kept us going all year round .
Most of my life i have continued to grow my own food but life has got in the way here and there.
So many people these days, don't have a clue how to grow anything . How they will cope when the shops go empty i hate to think .
The tea lights do work , i used to keep a greenhouse frost free with one placed inside 2 clay flowerpots .
For heating and cooking i now work with wood grown on the land and charcoal i also make from it , i can't afford candles and tealights , really ! ,the wood is free though .
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Read this thread with interest, i am not holding my breath,but
it may be a improvement as people have got vary greedy.
Slow the thing up, back to basics.
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Nice to see this thread active again. I love to know what you folks across the ocean are thinking.
My question is given how bad things look here in the USA and over there, why aren't more people concerned?
I too have been stocking up keeping the cupboards full and minding my garden. Ordered more chicks. Cow to butcher in the fall etc.
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Hello yg ,
i don't know what people think in general over there , but here the majority seem think things are fine , a bit of a rough patch at the moment , but things will soon sort out .
Well maybe they are right ? I hope they are .
But i think that tswhtf oct/nov time , and it could be very nasty .
I don't bother trying to talk about it now . Those that think as i do will be aware and ready , those that think otherwise will learn different soon enough .
Got to go for a bit , be back soon.
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Well I think some people don't want to think it's all going to go pearshaped and some think it'll be OK, but most are thinking they can't do much about it, whatever way it goes and will just have to cope with whatever comes when it comes.
Personally, I think they'll hold it off for another year or two at least.
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So is there anything in particular that makes you think the situation is worse now than in january?
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that depends on what you consider worse! this bill to my mind, is the one that will stand out http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18434112 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18434112)
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Back again , they have been keeping things going for at least 3 years now , and they can't keep inventing billions of £ out of nothing .
The other thing is the US elections . If ? They allow them to happen then we may get through to next year .
But war becons ! The US is about to go pop , war is the only way out of the crap they are in .
I did think that the limpics was going to be the start , but so far so good . Israel could hit Iran , we could hit Syria , makes little difference who hits who . The outcome will be the same , WAR .
If that doesn't happen soon then the banks will go anyway . The only thing that can save them is war .
Meltdown is almost here . What happens then is anyones guess , but it won't be good whatever it is .
So , those that are aware and ready will have a head start at least .
Will it be mad max time ? I doubt it , but i don't rule anything out .
On top of that there is the corn problem in the US as well . Ye gods what else can go wrong ? lol .
Just make sure your cupboards are full and if nothing happens what have you lost ? , nothing , you just eat it anyway .
All that said and done , should everyone walk round scared to death ? No , just live as normal and enjoy life . But keep an eye on things , oh and practice kissing your arse goodbye lol .
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So is there anything in particular that makes you think the situation is worse now than in january?
The Euro is not fixed and practically the entire EU is now in recession. Even Germany is struggling. It's still a sh*tstorm and it is coming
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I agree it seems the euro is not sorted yet & even today greece seems to be even further in debt and one week away from crisis but then this has been going on since the post was started at the end of last year. (hence the question).
Day to day I see a few companies going bust but if they cant trade when times are good then they will become natural wasteage.
What is the true effect of the end of woolworths for example? I know its just a symptom of the problem but how concerned should I be? Storing food ? defence lines against an invasion force?
I think its not bad - just different and evolving.
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You have to solve the problems before you can expect a recovery. The choices facing the Euro countries are all bad. Not just bad but very hard to see what the least worst choice is. So the politicians keep on prevaricating and the markets keep on stirring things up. At least the hedge funds are struggling to make money!
Woolworths, when it went bust was already irrelevant. That's why it went bust. Aside from the pick 'n mix counter everything it sold was easily available and cheaper online or somewhere else. The internet makes comparison shopping easy, and provides an effective shop window for a retailer with no premises. Tough on Dixons, tough on HMV and very tough for the future of the high street.
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ok, just as a reality check, what happened to all the media coverage of the libor issue? it went quiet suddenly, directly after that kid went to a batman premier and shot loads of people, no coincidence then that his dad was one of the people being investigated in america.
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Simple Simon = This is exactly what I mean when I say the situation is evolving - the recent spate of well known names going bust is not because of the economy per se but just a different solution to buying and selling ( ie the internet). This just means certain types of high street shops are no longer relevant ( hmv) bcause of trading methods. This doesnt make me think I or the next generation will be in a battle for survival.
DITW = your topic seems to be different - it is probably good that the government doesnt tell all - as lots of people cant handle the truth & would react irrationally - Remember the recent petrol shortage just caused by panic. Then the issue just disappeared.
Civiisation will be extremely tested when/if the masses panic. WHat could happen that would cause this? The greek havent panicked - they have riots and dissent but not the masses.
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The LIBOR story is a bit complicated. A lot of banks and their regulators are involved, but there's a vast amount of stuff yet to be published. It's unlikely to make good journalism because it's rather esoteric - quite tricky to know what laws have been broken. It's always the way with financial crime.
It was reported the other day that the Treasury select committee thought Bob Diamond wasn't completely candid with them. He was shocked by this.
This is a massive scandal with two components. One is the manipulation of rates for the benefit of Barclays, though it is unclear whether its dealers succeeded in manipulating the rates or simply tried to do it. If they did then it was only by collaboration with quite a lot of other banks.
The much larger problem is the fact that there isn't an interbank market any more, hasn't been since 2008, so the various Libo rates don't really exist despite the trillions that use them. I don't really know if that matters - the rates need to exist and it isn't clear what should be done. If that's a fraud then it's top to bottom.
There's a way to go on this.
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The internet is a game changer. There will winners and losers from this technology - and Facebook isn't looking good right now.
The big loser is going to be those who invested in retail property. Their world is falling apart.
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http://www.economicvoice.com/liborgate-dwarfed-by-geo-engineering-of-entire-planet/50031362?fb_action_ids=10152003896590647&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=246965925417366#axzz24DnO7gjm (http://www.economicvoice.com/liborgate-dwarfed-by-geo-engineering-of-entire-planet/50031362?fb_action_ids=10152003896590647&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=246965925417366#axzz24DnO7gjm)
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This thread has so many different elements. ::) The above post is about geo engineering ( governments are actively experimenting with altering our climate with nasty chemicals).
My first reaction is absolute horror and my second is just to check this isnt april 1st.
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yes the of thread started out about survival through the financial mess we are in. the link above is about libor which is highly relevant to the original.
and a sneaky way of introducing geo engineering. which you may or may not have noticed is happenng right now.
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Going back to the original thread, or maybe not depending on how you think. i often wonder if there is anarchy in the uk as you see in films where its dog eat dog sort of thing, what we would do as a family and what we would take. i would let all the animals out and leave the cats behind thats for sure but I would want to take our dogs. We have a souped up discovery that has done off roading all over europe, so we have all the necessary kit for surviving in there. I am therefore very nervous when it has been sorn as it has now, I feel safer knowing it is in working order with filled up jerry cans so at least we could make a quick get away and disappear into the highlands off the beaten track if needs must. ;D
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is it a G4 discovery or that somebody has cobbled together i don't think that taking of to the highlands would be a survivable solution all the southerners would be heading there as well
the Galloway forests might be a better and warmer environment 4 years this bank induced mega f*** up has lasted and we are not even at the bottom yet :farmer:
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God knows what it is robert, but it has taken across the desert plains in Spain to the slopes in austria and across the mountains in Italy etc. But i do agree with you on the everyone heading up that way and the galloway is just down the road, but its not that big is it, thats the problem lol.
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Nobody knows what is going to happen when the system goes tits up , but go it will , the main question really is when ?
Then things get interesting !
Do tptb plunge us into ww3 , as seems very likely now .
Do they implement the new world order they are intent on ? This could also follow after ww3 !
Does western civilization hit rock bottom and Mad Max appear ?
I for one have no idea .
But the days of wine and roses are about to go , of that i am sure . Can i be wrong ? Yes of course i can , but am i ?
As i have said before , i live as i do out of choice , not out of fear of impending doom .
But if Mad Max world happens i am as ready as i can be .
If it doesn't , i just carry on the same anyway .
There are so many scenarios that it is impossible to account for them all in detail .
If MM world happens , the last place i would want to be is in a town ! Any town . But i don't live in one , so for me that problem doesn't occur .
I will sit tight where i am and do what i do anyway . But if i did live in a town would i head for the highlands ? No .
I would at least have a basic plan of what to do if tshtf big time .
So many things to think
about , would it be possible to get away by car or 4x4 ? If you went early enough maybe . But where would you go ?
A destination is imperative , unless you decide to sit it out where you are .
Then decide upon how to get to your destination if you are going .
Will you have enough fuel ?
Will the roads be passable ?
Will you have enough food and water ?
And what will you do when you get there ?
The list is endless , but the basics are easy to sort .
Again , do i think Mad Max world will occur ? No , it is just one possibility.
But no matter what does occur , being as self reliant as possible will a least be very handy , at most a life saver .
I am aiming to be as near as possible , totally self reliant . That is just the way i choose to live .
It may or may not prove handy . Either way , i enjoy life , and my chosen path . Everyone should enjoy life and live how they choose.
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Should everything go t*t's up, will the survivors who don't have food, water, etc. not seek out those that do?
maybe they, then become the survivors....?
Having supplies is good, having the means to hold onto supplies I think is just as important.
Bangbang!
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look to the basics first. theres no point in having a gas guzzler with no gas.
at least 3months worth of food, a method of purifying water, a method of supplying heating and cooking a method to provide enough electricity to power a laptop with all your survival information stored on a memory stick. a good medicine chest, antibiotics, painkillers, a comprehensive medical kit. a stocked up seedbox. and gold, more gold. oh and a shotgun with a big box of ammo.
learn the skills of hunting, fishing, veg growing. it the shtf start sourcing food asap, the stores are there for emergencies, ie winter.
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one flaw in your plan DTW the shotgun and ammo the police are reducing the new licences issued and was one of the points the government were paranoid about at one time there were more legally held firearms than the army had all the well publicised shooting horrors were blamed on the tightening restrictions not so there are now more guns held than before only thing is it is fewer people that hold them and when it does go tits up the gun dealers premises will be cleared out by the army who have a blinding loyalty to obey orders without question :farmer:
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i couldnt shoot some one with a gun anyway robert,
id use a bow n arrow. ;D
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The chances of a major breakdown in public order here lasting more than a day or two are extraordinariy small. Sure you can get isolated problems - rampaging dairy farmers, perhaps - but it isn't in the culture. And the UK is substantially insulatd from the big trouble because of Sterling. The UK continues to be seen by foreign investors as a safe haven relative to most of our neighbours.
It isn't just the economy but the uk has reliable legal and political systems. Remember that much of this money comes from bits of the Gulf or Asia where political volatility is standard and has been for decades. They need places to shove their money, and the US isn't all that friendly. The alternatives are Sweden (rather small and chilly) France (dire economics) and Germany (err...) now that there are China worries and Brazil is out of favour. Australia? Time to worry - look at the iron ore price and the vast stocks of steel sitting around. Russia? No way.
Watch Greece and the other southern Europeans. If there's going to be big trouble it'll start there. Anything here will just be a sideshow.
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chance the trouble will spread here then???????
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chance the trouble will spread here then???????
No, I think your quite safe on the forum... :innocent:
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chance the trouble will spread here then? ??? ???
I really doubt it. While it is really hard to see how the Euro gets fixed human nature tends to muddle through. There's unrest in Greece but most of them don't want to quit the Euro. Merkel will bend now that the Greeks have woken up to the idea that they need to get their message over to the German people as well as their government.
France is such a mess, and they've elected a bloke who is going to discover just how much fun it isn't to have total legislative control and only daft policies. Italy, what can you say?
Stay at home and sing Rule Britannia.
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It may be that we see dramatic changes in our life time but I am not sure that Banks or macro-economics will cause such. A pandemic is possible or even war. Whatever - the bottom line is that the worlds population is too big to sustain it and new technologies for water, food and power generation are in themselves unstainable. It is believed that the population needs to be reduced to 25% of it's current level for sustainability to be achieved. this smaller population would then have to consume less power and re-use metals, plastics, glass etc that was once made from harvesting the earth minerals and fossil fuels. I am not optimistic that a transition or "survival" after such a massive population drop is achievable. Those with no skills or knowledge wil be the mad max brigrade and make survival towards the creation of a new sustainable world very difficult.
I fear that water and food shortages will reduce populations in the poorer natons and precipitate economic collapse in some countries with larger ones surviving longer. Change will happen and one day a small population will adapt and have to live a sustainable life but I doubt we can plan or pre-select who will survive -
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I agree. I'm most uneasy about Pakistan and its relations with India.
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overpopulation is a myth.
Overpopulation is a Myth (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsAracLBCxI#ws)
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Interesting.
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"over population is a myth".
Looks like you posted an US govt propaganda video Dave.
If we did all have an house and yard in Texas then I wonder if then how will we have left the rest of the world. I wonder too how life in Texas would be ;D
Actually I do know an academic who studies such matters and although she is not on the "global warming brigade" her predictions are a bit grim.
You should now, or will soon, notice the impact of drought in the USA on the price of food stuffs and animal feed. This is now a blip but the frequencey and severity of crop failures and water shortage will get worse. Give it about 50-60 years before a significant international crisis. Otherwise " Carry on camping" folks.
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Where do you find these things DITW. I found it thought provoking and right in theory on some matters. One point is re the fact the distribution of food, some have, some don't train of thought and that will always be the way. Well thinking along those lines in africa, where extremely poverty stricken people go onto have loads of children, this will mean that more and more people will be starving and that number will grow. If they survive, those children will then go onto have loads more children so the ratio of have and have nots will be so unbalanced and that won't ever change I think. Sink estates in this country are the same - families tend to have more children than those who are better off and better educated. In ideal world and in theory, this video may work but in reality it won't. On that score, that is why in another thread I mentioned I won't give money to aid africa as all we are doing is helping those children who would die naturally and help keep a balance to survive and go onto have more children and maybe cause an even bigger problem years down the line. No doubt someone will shout me down for that thought as it is quite controversial.
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the problem isnt overpopulation it is overconsumption.
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the problem isnt overpopulation it is overconsumption.
:thumbsup:
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the problem isnt overpopulation it is overconsumption.
by some, leaving not enough for others.
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the problem isnt overpopulation it is overconsumption.
Surely it amounts to the same thing? we are consuming more of the earths resources than it can sustain; so we either need to reduce the no. of people or reduce the per-capita consumption of resources.
The world population is currently going up.
ATM more and more of the formerly 3rd world peoples (india & china for e.g.) are moving towards 1st world consumption levels, so we aren't heading in the direction of being able to support more people; so unless you have a master plan up your sleeve to reverse this trend, it is fair to say there is (or will be) an overpopulation problem (IMHO).
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:wave: (I've never used one of these stupid things before but this one was waving at me)
Hello overpopulation chatters. What are the chances of a plague or something washing over the world?
Seems that we humans think we are running the show while all along things take care of themselves. For me and my house God is the controlling power. His will be done (like it or not).
That doesn't mean I don't try to stay prepared for glitches and bumps along the way.
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Humanity IS the plague.....The most destructive and self-distructive animal on the planet.
You don't see sheep making bombs, or shooting other animals...nor are they
building statues to religious icons.
Mankind can blow himself off the planet for all I care....but the damage that he
does, and the harm that he causes to the original inhabitants; is a concern.
We will follow in the footsteps of the dinasaurs they got to big to exist, and so are we.
A new Ark should be created nearer the time, with a sign saying, 'NO PEOPLE ALLOWED ON BOARD'.
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Mind you , sheep are crap at building arks ! Don't think they can write either ?
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Mind you , sheep are crap at building arks ! Don't think they can write either ?
At least they don't know how to build nuclear rectors :eyelashes:
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Mind you , sheep are crap at building arks ! Don't think they can write either ?
Evolution might prove you wrong! :innocent:
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Mind you , sheep are crap at building arks ! Don't think they can write either ?
At least they don't know how to build nuclear rectors :eyelashes:
now they would make evensong a bit more interesting.
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:wave: (I've never used one of these stupid things before but this one was waving at me)
For me and my house God is the controlling power. His will be done (like it or not).
That doesn't mean I don't try to stay prepared for glitches and bumps along the way.
I'm with you there, yankiegirl.
Mind you , sheep are crap at building arks ! Don't think they can write either ?
No but goats are intelligent. :goat:
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G-d maybe the "controlling power" but he has never intervened, stopped or corrected the chaos or even demise or death of man. Why should he? Take the hollocaust.
As I said in my post above - there will be, at some time not in the distant future, an event that will significantly reduce the worlds population. Water shortage, food shortage, energy crisis, disease or war will reduce the population and further depopulation will follow after the post apocalyptic chaos that others ( above) worry about.
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[quote author=MAK link=topic=19697.msg269086#msg269086 date=1347136775
there will be, at some time not in the distant future, an event that will significantly reduce the worlds population. Water shortage, food shortage, energy crisis, disease or war will reduce the population and further depopulation will follow after the post apocalyptic chaos that others ( above) worry about.
mak,im sure youve thought about this deeply, so what was the logical progression for you making that decision?
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The more I read this thread , the more depressed and saddened I become, I can hear the banjo's warming up , and picture the 'Survivalists' stockpiling more ammo than food, and some of it done in the name of 'Gods' ( non existant creature invented by man - not the other way round ) Too many wars have been started and fought in the name of religion, mankind is overbred and will destroy and contaminate everything he touches, so sit back , chill out and watch it unfold , some madman will get too much power and push the self-destruct button , solving all the problems for you. Then back to the drawing board and start again , until some troglodite evolves looks up and sees the sun , declares it a god , and off we go again.....
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The more I read this thread , the more depressed and saddened I become, I can hear the banjo's warming up , and picture the 'Survivalists' stockpiling more ammo than food, and some of it done in the name of 'Gods' ( non existant creature invented by man - not the other way round ) Too many wars have been started and fought in the name of religion, mankind is overbred and will destroy and contaminate everything he touches, so sit back , chill out and watch it unfold , some madman will get too much power and push the self-destruct button , solving all the problems for you. Then back to the drawing board and start again , until some troglodite evolves looks up and sees the sun , declares it a god , and off we go again.....
You're spot on.
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Doug , why do you continue to read a thread that saddens and depresses you ?
There are sections in the thread , that may put forward certain scenarios that are what many on this forum think at best unlikely .
Unlikely they may be , but does that mean that because you don't think them likely , that others with a different outlook , different life experiences , different education , different culture , different beliefs , are not entitled to the above because they differ from yours ?
I for one don't think that the end is nigh , and i am the one most likely to start a post discussing it .
I don't belong to any religion nor do i believe in any God or other deity .
Apart from an air rifle , that hasn't been used in 6 or 7 years , i don't possess any firearms nor do i wish to .
I do have a longbow but that is used as a past time not as a killing weapon , although i fully accept it could be if needed to , but so could a big stick or even my hands , ( my father was 16 years in the army , teaching unarmed combat to the SAS among others, me being one of the others ) .
Religion has been the cause of many wars , it still is . That doesn't mean that all who follow ? are wrong or nut jobs . It just means that some nut jobs follow certain religions .
As for sitting back and chilling out , that is such an arrogant , smug statement . Again , i for one do sit back and 'chill' .
I comment on corruption , i comment on many things . I will argue my point , but my life is not controled or ruled by what if ? I just talk about what if !
Yes i grow veg , yes i live a different way to many.
But my life affects nobody , or as few as i can possibly acheive .
So why do the mock ridicule attack brigade even read a thread that saddens and depresses them ?
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The end is Neigh!
Sorry, just horsin' around!