The Accidental Smallholder Forum
Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: Fowgill Farm on April 14, 2011, 10:47:15 am
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On the GOS website one of our members has has TB discovered in one of his pigs. DEFRA not knowing what to do have put him on standstill for 12 months. ::)
If anyone can help or offer advice please go to the GOS website and do so.
Many thanks
Mandy :pig:
THis is the original post
We have had a confirmed case of Bovine TB in a pig sent to slaughter in January. Although rare, more cases are being reported in pigs especially from outdoor units.(Badgers being the cause). The problem is that Defra do not seem to know how to deal with this and their solution at the moment is to put a total movement restriction order on me for 12 months!!! This is a serious situation for us and is now a major worry.
If anyone has any experience of this, I would be very grateful to hear from you as I don't seem to be getting anywhere.
Still thinking positively!
Mark
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That IS a worry :( I have badgers in my area too :-\ :o
I presume movements to slaughter are still okay, as it is with cattle ?
I can't offer any advice I'm afraid :-[
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I was at the vet's this morning and mentioned to her about this because I'd got myself into a bit of a tiz about it (we've got a badger set on our land and have seen them wandering past the pigs :o) but she's reassured me that Scotland is TB free, so the chances of this occuring in Scottish born and bred pigs is VERY slight, if at all. Obviously there's more of a risk with stock brought from South of the border into Scotland, but from my point of view it has definately reassured me.
I'm sorry Mandy, I know it doesn't help with your post - but I wanted to try and save other Scottish pig keepers getting the extra grey hairs I've developed over the last few days ;) I'm away to get another hair dye lol! :wave:
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could this be a marketing oportunity for scottish pigs(for export) :wave:
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Definately something for discussion on Sunday ;)
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Our farm has been in the same ownership for 50 years, and been TB free during that time. Two years ago, some of the pigs at the intensive farm up the lane from us got out. They went captured, and a while later sent for slaughter, and found to have TB. From what I gather those pigs must have caught the TB in their brief spell outside - and it would not be long. 5 farms were then affected including ours. None of my cows, goats, etc. were affected, but most of the herd belonging to a farmer who rented some of our land, have been slaughtered.
As I understood it, if you were TB free area, you would hopefully remain so, as the badgers are veru territorial, and would not let other family groups in, but it looks as thought one or more infected badgers did just that, here at least.
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Interesting...
The Pig Site says "The causal organism, Mycobacterium tuberculosis, is sub-classified into types, human, bovine and avian...Pigs are rarely infected by the human or bovine types but are commonly infected by the avian/intracellulare complex. "
According to the site causal factors are :
"The disease does not spread between pigs and should be regarded as an environmental infection. It is rarely diagnosed in living pigs.
Paddocks that have been treated with poultry manure up to one year previously, (or, in the case of bovine TB, which have been grazed by infected cattle or badgers).
Avian TB as the name implies is found in wild birds. The organism is shed in large numbers via droppings and therefore food, grain or bedding contaminated by birds becomes a potent source.
Peat often contains M. intracellulare. Peat is used both for bedding and gut stimulation in the young piglets. It should only be used if it as been pasteurised.
Water contaminated by M. avium/intracellulare is often a source. "
So not necessarily badgers or bovine TB in all cases.
Don't feel that the SPKA should be marketing based on others misfortune.
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oaklands as far as i am aware any export of pigs (with bpa involvement)always appears to be an elitist few :wave:
only last year i was aghast at one of those(few) proclaiming to me WHY SHOULD I CONTRIBUTE TO THE bpa in Scotland the bpa does nothing in Scotland :( :( :(
from what you have printed and quoted there appears to be missinformation on one part the state vets the other a gos breeder and the pig site being the all seeing all knowing source of knowledge :wave:
now Scotland is acknowledged as being bovine TB free you cant argue with that ;)
or has the gos breeder unearthed the next galloping lurgie that will decimate pig farming
marketing as one door closes another opens :-* :-*
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Don't feel that the SPKA should be marketing based on others misfortune.
Really Robin :(
I'm not the kind of person who would ever try to gain out of anyone's misfortune and I do feel terrible for the person in question :-\ It's an awful situation and one I pray is sorted out soon and that I never have to face :'(
But as Lillian says, Scotland is TB free, so what's wrong with saying it and telling people ? Not in a "oh we're better than them" way, just stating facts. ::)
I'm a firm believer that there are 2 kinds of people in this world -
Those who work away doing what they do and getting there on their own merits or
Those who try to make themselves look better by downing others.
I'm definately the former, and have no time for the latter at all >:(
Why, oh why, OH WHY do you feel the need to pick holes and comment negatively on our posts (in fact, lets be honest about it - it's Lillians/Roberts posts that seem to get the broad end of your sword) - you're making assumptions about what we're saying or going to do. And to assume makes an ass of u and me
We're (the SPKA) are just starting out, all self funded as we're not getting grants from anywhere and we're trying to do our bit and help promote our pigs and pork - hopefully you can see that this is important to us. The BPA doesn't do a huge amount of work north of the border, so it's with their approval that we formed and started the SPKA to do a little bit more at a local level.
I WILL NOT be made to feel guilty for being proud of our pigs ! >:(
What would your stance be, I wonder, if the boot was on the other foot ???
Karen x
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Hubby's just read this and told me it sounds like I'm looking for a fight :o
I'm not ;D ;D ;D :wave:
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Oh dear ::)
I don't think that you are looking for a fight Karen - just stating facts. AND I can't see what the problem is in promoting produce from a certain location - it's a marketing tool that's been done for years.
I just hope that things get sorted soon for Mark, the GOS owner - judging from what Oaklands has researched DEFRA seem to be mis-handling the issue.
:love: :pig: :love:
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as is all to often with posters they write the minimal of information with there requests/pleas or whatever (try getting a prognosis from a doctor by just complaining about a pain without stating were it is when it happens and severity) :wave:
i now wait till the post has evolved a bit before adding anything to it and still get it in the neck i could write reams on my feelings about the anomaly's that there are in this world of pig rearing and sometimes it despairs me with what is written on web sites(the bpa charges is one i would love to bear all on but will let others talk crap on and laugh at there lack of understanding)
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ooooohhhhhh i am so holding back i just want to get a rake of fornication's in here :wave:
the original post clearly stated BOVINE T B not avian and not human ;) ;) ;)
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I cannot help but feel that anyone who's fist post when someone has TB is "could this be a marketing oportunity for scottish pigs(for export)" does not and should not deserve my support.
I feel it was and still is a crass remark made insentively, and just ask how you would feel seeing that post if you were Mark.
Yes I have also commented on other insensitive remarks by Lilliian, and really feel that you are trying to say that Lillian can attack who she/he likes in his/her very blunt way, but those assertions cannot be questioned.
I always try and add value and information to all discussions on this forum, and continue to wish the SPKA every success, but just wish your president would occasionally pause and consider the impact of his/her messages before posting.
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o dear oaklands appears upset
anything we have achieved in the world of pigs has been done solely on our hard work and endeavours
that could be the key to this difference of opinion and clash of views i doubt if you would walk away from any opportunity to add value and increase sales on the back of some others misfortune
i have said before i do not do tea and sympathy and to old to change my ways
what you added was verbatim it is all to easy to engage search engine and copy some others endeavours as is all to common in this modern world
how i would feel YOU ASK ME HOW I WOULD FEEL well i would not be inclined to post my missfortunes on a public web site that eliminates the problem before it is started
and i am still holding back :wave:
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key to this difference of opinion and clash of views I doubt if you would walk away from any opportunity to add value and increase sales on the back of some others misfortune
Sorry Lillian, like HH says "I'm not the kind of person who would ever try to gain out of anyone's misfortune "
So if that is a key difference, I presume it is you that would be happy to do so?
If not, then why your post?
Confused from south of the border !
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hello confused from south of the border welcome to the forum :wave:
we all benefit from others misfortune either directly or indirectly
yes south of the border has a very big problem with TB and a lot of farmers are envious of our TB status it should not be for you to take the hump and spit the dummy out because Scotland has the opportunity to fulfill and provide TB free stock of any description
you are living in a delusional world with your ethics and business practise :wave:
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you are living in a delusional world with your ethics and business practise :wave:
Lillian,
Have not taken hump, am very pleased that Scotland is Bovine and human TB free and spat my last dummy many years ago !
But thanks for clearing that up, and am happy to be dillusional - has worked well for me for far - but obviously being dillusional I would say that ;D
Have a good day tomorrow
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thank you we hope to have a good day and encourage others to venture into the world of showing pigs you never know we may come down mob handed to some of the English shows :wave:
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Ah, Robert - did you finally let Lillian onto the pc ? or have you taken your happy pills now lol!
Just so's we're all clear - I'm TOTALLY dillusional too, mad as a hatter ;D ;D ;D
I don't like all the fighting ! And I don't think any of us should be having a go at others ethics and business practices unless we've seen for ourselves...........Robert :-\ ::) :-*
God, trying (and failing) to be peacekeeper isn't easy ::) I'll need to get a bigger stick I think :o ;D ;D
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dillusional is anybody trying to make a living from pigs there is the posibility we may like the big stick :o :o
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One of the things about a forum is that it should contain views, otherwise it is just an electronic q&a.
I don't think Lillian/Robert & I will ever be in total harmony (actually I am certain of this!), but I am always interested in their views, but disagree with some (maybe many) of them, and will continue to do so, and say so.
I still wish the SPKA association the best, and am really keen for it to succeed, we need more not less pig keepers.
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(we need more not less pig keepers) that is an oportunity for both of us or enrichment :wave:
well i am looking forward to meeting you and your o/h i just love a challange :wave:
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Please just step back a pace. The absurdity of the remark that Scottish pigs have a big export opportunity is basically flawed. Read the post from Oaklands quoting the Pig Site. You can take pigs anywhere from the world into a TB hotspot in England (Avian or Bovine) and they will be just as susceptable to the disease as those born within a mile. Just because you don't have TB in Scotland doesn't make your pigs immune. It just means it hasn't reached you.... yet.
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mr pig the absurdity is your remark
just take a few more steps further back oh to late you just fell over :wave:
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Just when I thought peace and relative harmony had been restored ::)
The absurdity of the remark that Scottish pigs have a big export opportunity is basically flawed.
I don't remember us saying there was a big export opportunity - I think the phrase was "could this be a marketing opportunity ?"
You can take pigs anywhere from the world into a TB hotspot in England (Avian or Bovine) and they will be just as susceptable to the disease as those born within a mile. Just because you don't have TB in Scotland doesn't make your pigs immune.
Again, we didin't actually say Scottish pigs wouldn't get TB - only that there is less of a chance of our pigs contracting it in the same way as the quoted post at the begining (badgers & bovine TB) because Scotland is TB free.
It just means it hasn't reached you.... yet.
Ah, so you're a glass half empty kinda person Mr Pig ;) Sending you some smiles and positivity ;D ;D ;D :wave:
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Just when I thought peace and relative harmony had been restored ::)
The absurdity of the remark that Scottish pigs have a big export opportunity is basically flawed.
I don't remember us saying there was a big export opportunity - I think the phrase was "could this be a marketing opportunity ?"
You can take pigs anywhere from the world into a TB hotspot in England (Avian or Bovine) and they will be just as susceptable to the disease as those born within a mile. Just because you don't have TB in Scotland doesn't make your pigs immune.
Again, we didin't actually say Scottish pigs wouldn't get TB - only that there is less of a chance of our pigs contracting it in the same way as the quoted post at the begining (badgers & bovine TB) because Scotland is TB free.
It just means it hasn't reached you.... yet.
Ah, so you're a glass half empty kinda person Mr Pig ;) Sending you some smiles and positivity ;D ;D ;D :wave:
i'll help you out with positivity HH ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :bouquet: ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-* :-* :-* :-*
you may be getting worn out! ;)
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Thank you Manian :-* :-* :-* ;D :wave:
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could this be a marketing oportunity for scottish pigs(for export) :wave:
Sorry HH but selective editing doesn't fool many people.
Sure you're unlikely at the moment to get TB while the pigs are in Scotland but the point I was making in response to SEVERAL quotes about export is that the nature of TB is that once the animal is in an infected zone it is as likely as the next to contract it. This makes a mockery of your rather gloating tone from Scotland that you should enjoy extra sales of TB-free stock.
TB is a very nasty disease and it brings misery to hundreds of farmers in England and Wales every week and I personally don't think it's a subject to gloat about in any sense. Sure I may be pessimistic or looking at a glass half empty but that sure beats living in cloud cuckoo land thinking it'll never happen here. I'm afraid that that was the attitude among some cattle famers in Yorkshire a few years ago but it ain't now.
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Do you know something Mr Pig - I think you just like argueing ;)
And selective editing or not - the fact remains that what was said was "COULD" !
We're unlikely to even persue such a thing tbh - it was more a thinking out load kinda thing, kicking a few ideas about, something which might have been an option for members of the Scottish Pig Keepers Association.
Nor did I ever say, at any point, that Scottish pigs wouldn't get TB - I meant that while in Scotland they could be considered TB free. I do not gloat, you're comment TB is a very nasty disease and it brings misery to hundreds of farmers in England and Wales every week and I personally don't think it's a subject to gloat about in any sense has really upset me and I think it's in very bad taste to even suggest I am gloating :( I would NEVER seek to gain from anyone else's misfortune and am deeply offended that you think that's the kind of person I am :'(
I've seen farmers brought to their knees because of disease. IN FACT my father was one of them >:( He gave up his beef herd in the 80's with the onset of BSE, so don't think you can lecture me about how awful it is - I KNOW HOW AWFUL IT IS, I'VE LIVED IT >:( :'(
Maybe I DO live in cloud cukoo land, but do you know what - I'm happy, my kids and hubby are happy - we're not hurting anyone, we're not trying to bring anybody down we're just doing what we do and trying to promote what we've worked hard to achieve - if that makes me a bad person then so be it.
Karen :wave:
PS Who are you Mr Pig ? What's your pedigree ? I don't mean that in any kind of nasty way - it's just I've read through all your old posts and you've never posted an intro. I know you've got lots of experience since you're in that habit of dealing with more than 1000 pigs to slaughter every year (saw that on one of your posts) and you seem to be well into your GOS and saddlebacks but I can't figure out who you are...................very mysterious ;) ;D
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mr pig what a stupid statement you have made
has pigs been exported from Scotland (other than cast sows and boars) not that i am aware
mockery and gloating tone THAT IS YOUR TWISTED INTERPRITATION i did not mock or gloat at the present situation as i said before i would not publicise the misfortune in the first place
and why has the situation escalated to the scale it is at badgers like foxes have that cutsie factor that the general public oooh and aaah at
now i travel quite a bit in the UK and it is only Scotland that has a suicidal badger population(poor buggers never make it past the white line donating the side of the road)
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now i travel quite a bit in the UK and it is only Scotland that has a suicidal badger population
C'mon now, tell the truth - they're not suicidal, they've been on the Morgan's and are too drunk (just like the rest of us) ;) :D ;D ;D :wave:
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The idea of this post was to offer any pearls of wisdom about TB to this poor man whose herd stands to be decimated by this stinking lowlife disease not to start a North versus South slanging match.
Tb is on the increase eveywhere not just in animals but in humans too and everyone needs to be vigilant even if you're not in a hot spot otherwise how long will it be before DEFRA in their infinite wisdom decide that pigs need testing just the same as cattle, more expense, more red tape for the beleagued livestock keeper. One of the things that puts me off cattle is the red tape that goes with them ( and Oh says he will do for me if another animal sets it hoof, paw, trotter etc on the place ;D) and all the testing. There was a report in the farmers weekly a couple of weeks ago about pigs being found with TB and also unscupulous farmers changing ear tags on infected cattle and regardless of where you live it only takes one numpty to bring an illegal animal onto a holding and wham its off again. This no time for complacency.
If i hear anymore news on how the GOS keeper is progressing i'll let you all know.
Regards
Mandy :pig:
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I never intended to start a riot - honest ! And I don't seem to be very good at stopping them either ::)
I hope everything get's sorted out for him soon and I do wish him all the best. It's time the 'wildlife' was stopped from affecting folks livelihoods though :-\ Foxes & Badgers - while certainly cute to look at, are a never ending source of death, disease and worry for us all.
Karen x
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the badgers are 90 degres to the road head betwean paws now i never drive near the left hand white line so htf do they get hit with no blood and guts and spread all over the road
i once saw a sheep on the A74 that had been annihilated blood splattered on the road and the fleece lying 200yds down the road
now i have my own ideas but short of seeing somebody placing it there it will only be an idea :wave:
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For anyone interested there has been an update on this topic on the GOS website
www.oldspots.org.uk (http://www.oldspots.org.uk)
Click on free speech and you will find the topic, makes very interesting reading.
Mandy :pig:
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read it already :wave:
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Just read it wow :( - that's really worrying & so feel for the breeder who looks like she's gonna lose her bloodlines too - in light of what's being said it seems DEFRA's is being reactive when it needs to be proactive with this issue ???