The Accidental Smallholder Forum

Livestock => Pigs => Topic started by: kjohnson34 on November 22, 2010, 08:14:05 pm

Title: how much
Post by: kjohnson34 on November 22, 2010, 08:14:05 pm
Just doing some sums and wondered if anyone could tell me if I'm close,  i'm thinking about 7 sacks of feed per weaner that's from 8 weeks to slaughter, about 40 quid each for the weaners and about  40 quid for slaughter and butchering does this sound about right
Title: Re: how much
Post by: farmershort on November 22, 2010, 08:17:52 pm
Just doing some sums and wondered if anyone could tell me if I'm close,  i'm thinking about 7 sacks of feed per weaner that's from 8 weeks to slaughter, about 40 quid each for the weaners and about  40 quid for slaughter and butchering does this sound about right

prices for weaners and slaughter sounds right - same as us... feed will depends on exactly how you run the diet I'd say 7 to 9 bags of feed - at £6 per 20kg bag, that's about £54 per weaner as a max feed cost. Anything left over is a bonus :)
Title: Re: how much
Post by: Rosemary on November 22, 2010, 09:22:43 pm
How do you get 7-9 bags? If you buy a weaner at 2 months and keep it for 6 months

Feed @ 1lb per month of age per day from 2months
30 days @ 2lb   60lb   April
30 days @ 3lb   90lb   May
30 days @ 4lb   120lb   June
30 days @ 5lb   150lb   July
30 days @ 6lb   180lb   August
30 days @ 6lb   180lb   September
15 days @ 6lb   90lb   Mid October slaughter
         870lb / 395kg / 19.75 bags feed (20kg bag)

Depends when you slaughter, of course, but 7 - 9 bags seems a bit light IMHO
Title: Re: how much
Post by: farmershort on November 22, 2010, 09:26:50 pm
How do you get 7-9 bags? If you buy a weaner at 2 months and keep it for 6 months

Feed @ 1lb per month of age per day from 2months
30 days @ 2lb   60lb   April
30 days @ 3lb   90lb   May
30 days @ 4lb   120lb   June
30 days @ 5lb   150lb   July
30 days @ 6lb   180lb   August
30 days @ 6lb   180lb   September
15 days @ 6lb   90lb   Mid October slaughter
         870lb / 395kg / 19.75 bags feed (20kg bag)

Depends when you slaughter, of course, but 7 - 9 bags seems a bit light IMHO


wow, they must be huge pigs! fair play to you!

sorry, I wasn't assuming growing for the normal starter porker sort of size... 50kg odd dead weight.

we buy them in a 10-12 weeks ish, and keep them roughly 3 months.
Title: Re: how much
Post by: robert waddell on November 22, 2010, 10:20:57 pm
its not cheep rearing your own pigs if you have been to lanark pig sales ever vendor is selling at a loss happy hippy your getting ripped of with the feeding you want to have aword with  the wife
Title: Re: how much
Post by: Eve on November 22, 2010, 11:03:32 pm
Cheapest pig feed here is £6 when bought per 20 bags or so but that particular supplier is so useless beyond belief that we had to go to a more expensive one: £7+ per bag (£7.30 if memory serves me right) but 1 free per every 10 bought.

Then there's the weaners and their transport to our field, the rent for the field, the battery and energiser (though they should last for years), the abattoir which went up big time this year to just over £40 per pig inc VAT, loads of sunscreen for the piggies' ears, a little tub of antiseptic powder, a dozen or so bales of straw at £1 each, shade netting used to give them more shade as they didn't have enough...

But it's still worth it!!  :pig: :love: :pig:
Title: Re: how much
Post by: Cobra on November 23, 2010, 04:00:58 am
Pig feed here is £8.00 per bag for growers 25Kg, I get rolled barley for £3.00 a bag 20kg.

Nothing quite like barley feed pork  :yum: Add that to your growers at a ratio and your feed costs will drop, provided you can source good priced rolled barley.  :pig:
Title: Re: how much
Post by: farmershort on November 23, 2010, 08:04:06 am
Ok,

just to prove I'm not mental:

buy weaners @ £40 each

2 weeks @ 2lb per day = 14lb

4 weeks @ 3 lb per day = 84lb

4 weeks @ 4lb per day = 112lb

4 weeks @ 5lb per day = 140lb

= 350lb per pig = 159Kg Divide by 20KG bags = 7.9 bags = about £50

Another £40 for slaughter (well, it's actually £33 now, but best to build in some slack)

so, £40 + £50 + £40 = £130 to rear a pig from 10 weeks old to 50kg deadweight.

Title: Re: how much
Post by: Eve on November 23, 2010, 10:15:38 am
We keep ours until 25-26 weeks and they're much bigger. They get loads of free fruit and veg on top of their pellets.
Don't forget to include your freezer, as well. Our pigs fill a tall standing freezer each, so we had to buy freezers.

Your sums sound about right, if you don't need to buy fencing etc. The first year is generally the more expensive one.
 
Title: Re: how much
Post by: farmershort on November 23, 2010, 11:11:49 am
We keep ours until 25-26 weeks and they're much bigger. They get loads of free fruit and veg on top of their pellets.
Don't forget to include your freezer, as well. Our pigs fill a tall standing freezer each, so we had to buy freezers.

Your sums sound about right, if you don't need to buy fencing etc. The first year is generally the more expensive one.
 

What do they end up as, deadweight, eve? It might be interesting to keep a batch a bit longer, and see how big ours get...
Title: Re: how much
Post by: OhLaLa on November 23, 2010, 12:26:13 pm
Remember folks, if you overfeed you will get pigs that lay on a lot of fat. I made that mistake with my first pig - 125kg at slaughter! Way too much fat which all had to be cut away.

 :pig:  :-\
Title: Re: how much
Post by: TheCaptain on November 23, 2010, 12:28:07 pm
Farmershort, I reckon you're a bit under but nowhere near the 20 bags!

My sums go along the lines of:

31 days @ 1.3 Kg = 40 Kg
31 days @ 1.75 Kg = 54 Kg
31 days @ 2.2 Kg = 68 Kg
31 days @ 2.6 Kg = 81 Kg  
Total = 243 Kg
243 Kg / 25 Kg bag = 9.7 bag - 10 bags for arguments sake.  Bag of feed = £7.20 (ish) = £72 in feed for four months of feeding!
Title: Re: how much
Post by: kjohnson34 on November 23, 2010, 12:58:35 pm
I'm amazed at the difference, my theory was buy them at 8 weeks old slaughter at about 6 months old and that would use about 190 Kgs of feed per pig which would be between 7-9 sacks depending on 20 or 25 Kgs sacks, the equipment i already have so my sums came to weaner+feed+slaughter/butcher   £40+£60+£40 = £140 for each pig which i thought was a bargin
Title: Re: how much
Post by: pikilily on November 23, 2010, 01:06:28 pm
Ha, ha!! I think there is a lot of cross purpose chatting here....

some folk are buying weaners at 8 weeks, some at 12 weeks
some folk are buying 20kg bags, and some 25kg bags, and there are different prices according to where we live.
and of course there are different desired slaughter weights, and different prices for slaughter.

getting a headache trying to decipher it all....

LOL
Emma T
Title: Re: how much
Post by: Eve on November 23, 2010, 02:52:37 pm
Pikilily made a good point, we need to mention weights and ages  :D
We buy weaners at 8-9 weeks old, the bags of feed weigh only £20kgs, and they go to slaughter at 6 months if mainly for fresh pork. They're usually around 85-90kgs liveweight and chubbier than pigs whose food is strictly controlled (not obese, though :D).

We feed our oinkers the normal amount of pellets according to the pound-per-month system, or more if they need it as they run around a lot, and lots of free fruit and veg on top of that. The latter won't get them uberfat, just happy and healthy on a varied diet (we're not talking only starch-rich bananas here, but also lots of cucumbers, or crunchy water, as I like think of it! :) ).
We don't get less meat, but the same meat with a bit more fat on it, mostly backfat. We cut if off before it goes on our plate as by then it's given its flavour to the cooked meat, and it's very useful for air dried hams and salami's for which backfat works best. So we're not fussed about keeping them lean, they are pigs, after all.  ;) 

OhLala, you could always try selling excess fat as Carpaccio Bianco - costs a fortune in Harrods et al!   :)

KJohnson, make sure you always keep pig pellets dry. You're lucky having the equipment already, you'll probably do well out of your pigs, then!

Title: Re: how much
Post by: OhLaLa on November 23, 2010, 03:13:54 pm
Eve - I only did it the once - it went into various recipes and I made lard (loads, that went in the freezer). Have got it about right now.  :)
Title: Re: how much
Post by: kjohnson34 on November 23, 2010, 07:49:09 pm
I've got 13 acres that we keep horses on so I have fence posts, stockfence and energizer with tape and I can make a sturdy shelter plus feed stores for the horse food
Title: Re: how much
Post by: Eve on November 23, 2010, 10:38:44 pm
You're in profit already!  ;D

Keep in mind that quite a few horses are scared of pigs (it's their movements, not their smell, and it takes them a long time to get used to that - something to do with wild boars killing wild horses in days very long gone by). You'll have a trailer as well, I take it, the abattoir will probably be fine with getting a horse trailer in though it's best to check first, you never know.

Once you have your herd numbers etc start shopping around for tags (metal is, I think, pretty much universally accepted, plastic isn't) so that you have plenty of time to source them, and then you're all set.
Title: Re: how much
Post by: robert waddell on November 23, 2010, 10:43:27 pm
cant carry pigs sheep cattle in horse box no gates on sides of the ramp
Title: Re: how much
Post by: pikilily on November 24, 2010, 12:30:26 am
Lilian,

I did, all you need is some sheep hurdles or pallets that you tie on the side of the trailer, before you let the ramp down. it is easy and works just fine. I carry the 'gates' in the back of my jeep. dunblane abattoir ask for side ates and were happy with the way i did it.

I know that some folk have constructed gates for their horse trailer which can be lifted off the pins, if they wish, when transporting horses.

'Simples'
Emma T
Title: Re: how much
Post by: Hilarysmum on November 24, 2010, 12:37:32 pm
Whatever you use, if its like here, you will be asked to wash the trailer out before leaving, so no straw, cos it makes one heck of a soggy mess!!!
Title: Re: how much
Post by: pikilily on November 24, 2010, 01:51:53 pm
thats a point- dunblane didnt ask for the trailer to be cleaned.
i did when I got home though!
'Spose thats a naughty point for them!!
ET
Title: Re: how much
Post by: robert waddell on November 24, 2010, 02:11:21 pm
all the slaughter houses that we have used has not required to wash the trailor out better using your facilities than theirs the side gates is required by law and on that point how many people have the transport certificate????????
Title: Re: how much
Post by: ballingall on November 24, 2010, 02:38:44 pm
all the slaughter houses that we have used has not required to wash the trailor out better using your facilities than theirs the side gates is required by law and on that point how many people have the transport certificate????????

I do!


Beth
Title: Re: how much
Post by: farmershort on November 24, 2010, 03:24:20 pm
thats a point- dunblane didnt ask for the trailer to be cleaned.
i did when I got home though!
'Spose thats a naughty point for them!!
ET

They're supposed to get you to sign an A4 green slip stating that you can wash your trailer out somewhere other than the abattoir. we get one of these each time we drop of our pigs.

also, you only need that (insert swear word here) livestock haulage licence if you're travelling over 40k if memory serves.
Title: Re: how much
Post by: pikilily on November 24, 2010, 04:08:02 pm
Now then, Now then!!! Lanuage Timothy!!!   ;D ;D ;D

the * insert word* transport thing.... ah!  If its for personal use you dont need it anyway...ie NOT COMMERCIAL or 'part of an ecconomic activity'.. (i am not shouting, just emphasising) I went over it with DEfra on the other end of the phone....  it is  over 50miles to the abattoir from here and o 1.5 hours drive with a trailer...so although over the lower milage for the level one (>(40 miles/ 65k) form i was still exempt cos i am not commercial. But the nice man at Defra said i could fill it out and have the guidelines with me in case anyone challenges. If you have the self declaration (WIT06) one done at least it shows you are aware of the rules and have concidered your animal transport.

mine went, two in the horse trailer, with a huge big bed of straw and a bucket of water,....LOL couldnt manage to wire up the stereo for them..!!!
Emma T
Title: Re: how much
Post by: farmershort on November 24, 2010, 04:15:25 pm
Now then, Now then!!! Lanuage Timothy!!!   ;D ;D ;D

the * insert word* transport thing.... ah!  If its for personal use you dont need it anyway...ie NOT COMMERCIAL or 'part of an ecconomic activity'.. (i am not shouting, just emphasising) I went over it with DEfra on the other end of the phone....  it is  over 50miles to the abattoir from here and o 1.5 hours drive with a trailer...so although over the lower milage for the level one (>(40 miles/ 65k) form i was still exempt cos i am not commercial. But the nice man at Defra said i could fill it out and have the guidelines with me in case anyone challenges. If you have the self declaration (WIT06) one done at least it shows you are aware of the rules and have concidered your animal transport.

mine went, two in the horse trailer, with a huge big bed of straw and a bucket of water,....LOL couldnt manage to wire up the stereo for them..!!!
Emma T

Brilliant tip! I wasn't aware of the WIT06 form, thanks! :)
Title: Re: how much
Post by: pikilily on November 24, 2010, 04:32:53 pm
No prob,
the WIT06 is really for commercial < 65k journeys, but that is the one i fill out...even for my own records.
the guidance notes are WIT 21, two pages, and it explains everything clearly.

what is intersting is the Defra definition of 'economic activity'  is .....'any transport of animals undertaken as part of a business or commercial activity, which aims at acheiving financial gain, whether direct or indirect, for any person or company involved with transport.'

so, on A.S. we could ALL get around it by saying we do not 'aim' to acheive personal gain, and how many of us actually turn a 'gain'.....and we are not involved with 'transport' ....the quote does not say 'the transport' it says transport.....totally different!!

it goes on to say who does not need an authorisation
ie .'...not connected with ecconomic activity'
1. not in course of business or trade
2. not for hire or reward
etc etc

Emma T
Title: Re: how much
Post by: pikilily on November 24, 2010, 04:39:50 pm
BUM BUM BUM!!!
sorry the symbol should be
>
not
<
before the 65k....really, really, sorry to add to what is already irritation and confusing enough
Emma T  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: how much
Post by: Eve on November 24, 2010, 05:20:09 pm
No worries, Emma, we know what you meant.  ;)

We too have always been asked to sign a declaration that we'd clean the trailer. We use the farmer's high pressure machine to make it spotless when we get back.