Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Sheep housing  (Read 8484 times)

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2013, 11:18:56 am »
Do you need planning permission for these barns/shelters?

Different rules apply if it's an agricultural building. This is the advice I got from a planner a few years ago.

"Rosemary, the tests of whether PP is required in this case are basically:
Is the building for an agri purpose on an agri unit  of more than 0.4Ha?
Would the building plus any others erected in the last 2 years exceed 265sqm?
Would any part of the building be within 25m of a metalled portion of a classified road?
Would the height of the building exceed 12m?

If the answer is NO to all of these questions, then no PP is required.  Hope that helps. "


Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2013, 11:23:57 am »
Although all those criteria apply, we found the planners still want you to let them know what you are doing and let them make the decision as to whether you need PP.  Keeps them sweet, and also they like to be in the know if someone comes to complain.
Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the the lifeblood of your land.

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2013, 11:52:03 am »
I just wondered if you keep them inside for an extended period what about exercise?  I suppose you could buy them a treadmill  :roflanim:
Seriously though is it an issue?
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2013, 12:10:57 pm »
Do you need planning permission for these barns/shelters?

Different rules apply if it's an agricultural building. This is the advice I got from a planner a few years ago.

"Rosemary, the tests of whether PP is required in this case are basically:
Is the building for an agri purpose on an agri unit  of more than 0.4Ha?
Would the building plus any others erected in the last 2 years exceed 265sqm?
Would any part of the building be within 25m of a metalled portion of a classified road?
Would the height of the building exceed 12m?

If the answer is NO to all of these questions, then no PP is required.  Hope that helps. "


I think this is all true but applies to holdings over 5 hectares, there are much more restricted circumstances where agricultural prenotification applies  for smaller holdings., you have to prove the agricultural justification for the building rather than it being assumed as it is with holdings over 5 hectares. Also unless you do the notice to council and the small fee and wait the 28 days, you can't benefit from it retrospectively later and will have to apply for PP instead, which some people don't realise.




Also (last caveat) building regs will apply in many cases esp where drainage of waste water or rainwateris involved as it would be for a livestock building. If it were just storage then a fairly modest building (upper limit is deptermined by volume, would equate to approx 60x40 foot building about 12 foot to eaves ) can escape building regs, which is useful as the fee for a building warrant is usually a lot more than for PP, but this exemption is only for storage type buildings.


There is a slight niggle in the back of my mind that is also querying whether you can use agricultural notice planning exemption for livestock housing buildings at all, but I haven't been able to track down anything recent on this.


feldar

  • Joined Apr 2011
  • lymington hampshire
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2013, 12:21:28 pm »
Yes it can be an issue an in-lamb ewe stuffing herself on hay or silage will get fat and potentially have lambing problems. I think housing ewes can be as much work if not more than leaving outside but it can be being caught between a rock and a hard place :-\
We have housed all our early lambers since two weeks before they lamb and if not for the SBV we 've had a good season, our late lambers usually stay out and lamb out, but this year we lambed them earlier and they came in because the weather was so bad and again we had the best March lambing we ever had.
But saying that ewes don't like being in much and they do look tired in their fleece after a while. Sheds and barns can be too  warm and the risk of disease like pnuemonia high. Plus you have to clean it out afterwards, or risk disease next year. That needs a tractor or a very willing workforce, Trust me i know cleaning a deep litter barn by hand is yuk.
So swings and roundabouts But got to be better than standing in deep mud!!

Tala Orchard

  • Joined Nov 2012
  • North Cornwall
    • Tala Orchard
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2013, 01:20:03 pm »
For livestock buildings for housing you will require PP in England and Wales not sure abut NI or Scotland.

For temp housing of pregnant animals or sick animals you can use General Permitted Developement under the Town and Country Planning Act 1995, Part 6
PART 6
AGRICULTURAL BUILDINGS AND OPERATIONS

Class A Development on units of 5 hectares or more

A.    Permitted development

The carrying out on agricultural land comprised in an agricultural unit of 5 hectares or more in area of—

(a)works for the erection, extension or alteration of a building; or
(b)any excavation or engineering operations, which are reasonably necessary for the purposes of agriculture within that unit.

A.1    Development not permitted

Development is not permitted by Class A if—

(a)the development would be carried out on a separate parcel of land forming part of the unit which is less than 1 hectare in area;
(b)it would consist of, or include, the erection, extension or alteration of a dwelling;
(c)it would involve the provision of a building, structure or works not designed for agricultural purposes;
(d)the ground area which would be covered by—
(i)any works or structure (other than a fence) for accommodating livestock or any plant or machinery arising from engineering operations; or
(ii)any building erected or extended or altered by virtue of Class A,would exceed 465 square metres, calculated as described in paragraph D.2 below;
(e)the height of any part of any building, structure or works within 3 kilometres of the perimeter of an aerodrome would exceed 3 metres;
(f)the height of any part of any building, structure or works not within 3 kilometres of the perimeter of an aerodrome would exceed 12 metres;
(g)any part of the development would be within 25 metres of a metalled part of a trunk road or classified road;
(h)it would consist of, or include, the erection or construction of, or the carrying out of any works to, a building, structure or an excavation used or to be used for the accommodation of livestock or for the storage of slurry or sewage sludge where the building, structure or excavation is, or would be, within 400 metres of the curtilage of a protected building; or
(i)it would involve excavations or engineering operations on or over article 1(6) land which are connected with fish farming.
A.2.    Conditions

A.2.

(1) Development is permitted by Class A subject to the following conditions—

(a)where development is carried out within 400 metres of the curtilage of a protected building, any building, structure, excavation or works resulting from the development shall not be used for the accommodation of livestock except in the circumstances described in paragraph D.3 below or for the storage of slurry or sewage sludge;
(b)where the development involves—
(i)the extraction of any mineral from the land (including removal from any disused railway embankment); or
(ii)the removal of any mineral from a mineral-working deposit,the mineral shall not be moved off the unit;
(c)waste materials shall not be brought on to the land from elsewhere for deposit except for use in works described in Class A(a) or in the provision of a hard surface and any materials so brought shall be incorporated forthwith into the building or works in question.
(2) Subject to paragraph (3), development consisting of—

(a)the erection, extension or alteration of a building;
(b)the formation or alteration of a private way;
(c)the carrying out of excavations or the deposit of waste material (where the relevant area, as defined in paragraph D.4 below, exceeds 0.5 hectare); or
(d)the placing or assembly of a tank in any waters,
is permitted by Class A subject to the following conditions—

(i)the developer shall, before beginning the development, apply to the local planning authority for a determination as to whether the prior approval of the authority will be required to the siting, design and external appearance of the building, the siting and means of construction of the private way, the siting of the excavation or deposit or the siting and appearance of the tank, as the case may be;
(ii)the application shall be accompanied by a written description of the proposed development and of the materials to be used and a plan indicating the site together with any fee required to be paid;
(iii)the development shall not be begun before the occurrence of one of the following—
(aa)the receipt by the applicant from the local planning authority of a written notice of their determination that such prior approval is not required;
(bb)where the local planning authority give the applicant notice within 28 days following the date of receiving his application of their determination that such prior approval is required, the giving of such approval; or
(cc)the expiry of 28 days following the date on which the application was received by the local planning authority without the local planning authority making any determination as to whether such approval is required or notifying the applicant of their determination;
(iv)(aa)where the local planning authority give the applicant notice that such prior approval is required the applicant shall display a site notice by site display on or near the land on which the proposed development is to be carried out, leaving the notice in position for not less than 21 days in the period of 28 days from the date on which the local planning authority gave the notice to the applicant;
(bb)where the site notice is, without any fault or intention of the applicant, removed, obscured or defaced before the period of 21 days referred to in sub-paragraph (aa) has elapsed, he shall be treated as having complied with the requirements of that sub-paragraph if he has taken reasonable steps for protection of the notice and, if need be, its replacement;
(v)the development shall, except to the extent that the local planning authority otherwise agree in writing, be carried out—
(aa)where prior approval is required, in accordance with the details approved;
(bb)where prior approval is not required, in accordance with the details submitted with the application; and
(vi)the development shall be carried out—
(aa)where approval has been given by the local planning authority, within a period of five years from the date on which approval was given;
(bb)in any other case, within a period of five years from the date on which the local planning authority were given the information referred to in sub-paragraph (d)(ii).
(3) The conditions in paragraph (2) do not apply to the extension or alteration of a building if the building is not on article 1(6) land except in the case of a significant extension or a significant alteration.

(4) Development consisting of the significant extension or the significant alteration of a building may only be carried out once by virtue of Class A(a).


D.1    Interpretation of Part 6

For the purposes of Part 6—

“agricultural land” means land which, before development permitted by this Part is carried out, is land in use for agriculture and which is so used for the purposes of a trade or business, and excludes any dwellinghouse or garden;
“agricultural unit” means agricultural land which is occupied as a unit for the purposes of agriculture, including—
(a)any dwelling or other building on that land occupied for the purpose of farming the land by the person who occupies the unit, or
(b)any dwelling on that land occupied by a farmworker;
“building” does not include anything resulting from engineering operations;
“fish farming” means the breeding, rearing or keeping of fish or shellfish (which includes any kind of crustacean and mollusc);
“livestock” includes fish or shellfish which are farmed;
“protected building” means any permanent building which is normally occupied by people or would be so occupied, if it were in use for purposes for which it is apt; but does not include—
(i)a building within the agricultural unit; or
(ii)a dwelling or other building on another agricultural unit which is used for or in connection with agriculture;
“significant extension” and “significant alteration” mean any extension or alteration of the building where the cubic content of the original building would be exceeded by more than 10% or the height of the building as extended or altered would exceed the height of the original building;
“slurry” means animal faeces and urine (whether or not water has been added for handling); and
“tank” includes any cage and any other structure for use in fish farming.
For the purposes of Part 6—

(a)an area calculated as described in this paragraph comprises the ground area which would be covered by the proposed development, together with the ground area of any building (other than a dwelling), or any structure, works, plant, machinery, ponds or tanks within the same unit which are being provided or have been provided within the preceding two years and any part of which would be within 90 metres of the proposed development;
(b)400 metres is to be measured along the ground.
The circumstances referred to in paragraphs A.2(1)(a) and B.5 are—

(a)that no other suitable building or structure, 400 metres or more from the curtilage of a protected building, is available to accommodate the livestock; and
(b)(i)that the need to accommodate the livestock arises from—
(aa)quarantine requirements; or
(bb)an emergency due to another building or structure in which the livestock could otherwise be accommodated being unavailable because it has been damaged or destroyed by fire, flood or storm; or
(ii)in the case of animals normally kept out of doors, they require temporary accommodation in a building or other structure—
(aa)because they are sick or giving birth or newly born; or
(bb)to provide shelter against extreme weather conditions.
For the purposes of paragraph A.2(2)(c), the relevant area is the area of the proposed excavation or the area on which it is proposed to deposit waste together with the aggregate of the areas of all other excavations within the unit which have not been filled and of all other parts of the unit on or under which waste has been deposited and has not been removed.

In paragraph A.2(2)(iv), “site notice” means a notice containing—

(a)the name of the applicant,
(b)the address or location of the proposed development,
(c)a description of the proposed development and of the materials to be used,
(d)a statement that the prior approval of the authority will be required to the siting, design and external appearance of the building, the siting and means of construction of the private way, the siting of the excavation or deposit or the siting and appearance of the tank, as the case may be,
(e)the name and address of the local planning authority,
and which is signed and dated by or on behalf of the applicant.


Basically if you want to house sick and pregnant animals you can build a barn under GPDO this will cost £80.00 simple application form, hope this is of help

Tala

Pigs are human tooo

SteveHants

  • Joined Aug 2011
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2013, 01:28:32 pm »
I'm also of the opinion that pregnant ewes need to wander about - I'm not sure how good for them keeping them in all winter would be. My attempt to address the poor weather this year was to lamb on the 18th Apr as opposed to the 1st or thereabouts which is when I usually lamb. I wont be able to tell you whether that was a good idea or not for a month or so though.  ;D

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2013, 07:46:19 pm »
I just wondered if you keep them inside for an extended period what about exercise?  I suppose you could buy them a treadmill  :roflanim:
Seriously though is it an issue?
                                                                                                                                                             You would be surprised how much exercise sheep get inside they don't just eat and sleep !   This year inside from early feb  until lambed , in a very wet year can be in from early jan  , i have tupped ewe lambs inside in dec and kept them in until lambing in may , feet are the only problem, shed is very open

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2013, 08:12:41 pm »
Ours aren't getting much exercise OUTSIDE - they spend most of their time huddled in the field shelter  :gloomy:

Pasture Farm

  • Joined Aug 2011
  • East Lincolnshire
  • Trusty Traca
    • Pasture Poultry
    • Facebook
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2013, 09:23:09 pm »
This is exactly the way i am thinking of going next year i keep 40-50 breeding ewes on 20 good grass acres but this year the 5 acre field nearest to the house with the barn on looks as though it has had horses on all year  :(   im considering digging down 18" and filling with chalk for drainage then keeping the sheep on straw untill april but feeding will be a fine art and i will also have to store the hay outside.

Herdygirl

  • Joined Sep 2011
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2013, 09:41:19 pm »
As i have spent a fair amount of my free time (?) watching my sheep, i notice that they do spend a fair time wandering about the barn, apart from around 12 til 4pm, it's seista time!  unless they want a drink. They also settle down around 7pm for the night as they would in the field.

Despite what neighbouring farmers have said on bringing them in more than a week before lambing (that they get sore feet) i find that on good dry straw,mucked out regularly,  that i have less limpers than i would normally have at this time of year. And if there is, because they are relaxed i can do a quick trim with them standing up with no stress to me or sheep!  ;)

feldar

  • Joined Apr 2011
  • lymington hampshire
Re: Sheep housing
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2013, 09:04:26 am »
Ours aren't getting much exercise OUTSIDE - they spend most of their time huddled in the field shelter  :gloomy:
Bless em!  bring them in, they'll love you more for it :innocent:  poor babies

 

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