Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: To worm or not  (Read 1714 times)

Richmond

  • Joined Sep 2020
  • Norfolk
To worm or not
« on: October 29, 2020, 08:10:29 am »
Looking for some advice. I bought a young Soay ram in August to use on my ewes in November. Just done a FEC via vet on all the sheep. Ewes came back with low (no need to worm) result. Pooled sample from young ram and his older wether companion came back as 300 for strongyles and 50 for tapeworm. Vet said no need to worm despite "borderline" result if he is hale and hearty which he is. The sample I sent in didn't contain tapeworm segments at the time although I am now seeing some in the field.
My dilemma is twofold:
1) He is a pretty wild nervous ram and won't be easy to catch
2) The ewes are currently on a field with v short grass that needs rest and the boys are in a bigger, better field grass-wise so I want to bring the ewes to the ram rather than vice versa as then they can all stay there over winter and mums and lambs can return to the other paddock post lambing. Currently no other paddocks available although desperately trying to get a 3rd fenced but it won't be ready till Spring and then we want to take hay off it so won't put sheep in till July.
So, should I worm the ram (and friend) before introducing ewes or leave as is?

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2020, 09:19:26 am »
I would worm ram and wether now. His count is borderline but you don't want to compromise your low count in the rest of your herd.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2020, 10:54:49 am »
^ Yes, I'd do that as well, especially if you're leaving them on the same ground (i.e. you're not introducing a selection pressure for wormer resistance by moving them onto clean ground).
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Richmond

  • Joined Sep 2020
  • Norfolk
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2020, 11:32:24 am »
Thanks both. My vet recommends worming off the paddock eg in a barn or other small area and leaving sheep there for 48 hours until all worms have died/passed through. Our "temporary pen" -  made up of Heras panels and used from time to time for quarantining/worming sheep - is currently full of turkeys (!!) so not available right now. Would it be ok to worm the boys in situ or is this going to compromise the pasture too much?

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2020, 12:43:26 pm »
The ideal thing to do when buying in new stock is to worm new arrivals to your land and do that inside a scrubable pen, with quarantine for three weeks before putting them out.  That prevents contamination of your land with worms and anything else the new animal may be carrying. 


However, your land is already contaminated by the tup so if you put the ewes on it then they will pick up worms too.  I would worm the tup plus chum now, do what you plan with moving the ewes to the tup, then do another FEC about a month after tupping is over and worm them all if necessary, which it probably will be. Really FECs and the advice given out are mainly aimed at big-scale sheep farming - with small numbers you can achieve virtual zero counts as you had for your ewes before, if you use a closed flock with full quarantining of any bought-on animals.  I don't know how long the various worms are viable on the ground without a sheep host.  You will need to do repeated FECs over the next years to clear up the residue before you will reaquire your clean status.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 12:52:32 pm by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Richmond

  • Joined Sep 2020
  • Norfolk
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2020, 01:54:10 pm »
Thanks. The ram was apparently wormed prior to us collecting him but I don't know what with. I do wonder whether the seller had a bit of a tussle with him as he only managed to get one ear tag in and gave me the yellow EID in my hand for me to tag him with "when the time comes" so possibly worming effectively may have been a struggle too?
Our existing Soays are all really tame (I think a couple are really dogs in disguise!) so I'm actually wondering if we'll be able to get hold of him anyway. I hoped he would have calmed down by now but he's still very wary of being approached. The wether is silly tame and dosing him will not be a problem.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2020, 05:26:01 pm »
Soay tups can be vile - we've had a few!  They can be OK too.  Hopefully yours will calm down a bit when he's been in with the ewes and is back with his chum. We used to give ours a 'bashing stob' to vent their need to smash their heads against something and save our fences from destruction  :D . As you're going to be mixing him with the ewes soon anyway, perhaps wait until they are together and bring them all in.  Be warned - Soay tups jump, especially when they're in a pen, so not only do you have to start again, but you run the risk of being hit on the way and injured.  He won't be too bad while he's young, but more so as his horns grow big.  We used to place a metal hurdle lying flat over the pen to prevent jumping - only remove it when you've dealt with the tup.  At least you have got him while he's young and you can let him see what he's expected to do and not do, and you will have read enough on TAS to know not to try to tame him.  Without taming, you can still have a nice handleable animal if you treat him gently but firmly.  Being with a quiet chum for most of the year should help to calm him down.
When we fetch any new animals in, we worm them ourselves and just on that occasion we use Zolvix which is pretty sure against most worms, and a flukicide too from the vet although we don't live somewhere where we normally get fluke. For the rest of the time we use Panacur, very occasionally if a sheep is scouring, and we do FECs every now and then - the regime seems to work.
We still have three Soay ewes but so far we haven't bred them...........
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 05:29:20 pm by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Richmond

  • Joined Sep 2020
  • Norfolk
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2020, 08:48:29 am »
Thanks again. We are going to temporarily evict the turkeys from the Heras pen - even a Soay won't jump over the top of those panels  ;D  - reconfigure it and corner him in there. At 8 months old he's not big yet, just very athletic!
Of course we'll have to lure him in there first but hopefully he'll follow the wether who usually follows me anywhere ..... at least that's the cunning plan. Then they can stay in the pen for a few days till all worms passed out and then we'll return them to the field and then bring the ewes in. Do you think poo picking the field will help?

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2020, 09:44:26 am »
Do you think poo picking the field will help?


It certainly won't do any harm. It depends how long they've been in there how effective it might be though.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2020, 11:28:03 am »

When we fetch any new animals in, we worm them ourselves and just on that occasion we use Zolvix which is pretty sure against most worms, and a flukicide too from the vet although we don't live somewhere where we normally get fluke.


I don't have soays (or any other primitave breed) but Fleecewife's advice about quarantine worming is spot on for any breed of sheep. Doesn't matter if the incoming sheep were wormed the day before coming to you- always quarantine worm on arrival to your holding and keep in for 48 hours before turning out.

Richmond

  • Joined Sep 2020
  • Norfolk
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2020, 11:57:22 am »
Yes I agree - I always quarantine other stock but on this occasion we had a grass crisis - nothing anywhere except in the big field. Also he was only 5 months at the time and I didnt feel it would be good for him to be on his own for 3 weeks - the other sheep were a distance away. So I brought the wether up and popped them together. I trusted the seller when he said he had wormed him, but I guess I shouldn't have  :(
Oh well ......

sheeponthebrain

  • Joined Feb 2016
  • Turriff
Re: To worm or not
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2020, 03:57:58 pm »
Yes I agree - I always quarantine other stock but on this occasion we had a grass crisis - nothing anywhere except in the big field. Also he was only 5 months at the time and I didnt feel it would be good for him to be on his own for 3 weeks - the other sheep were a distance away. So I brought the wether up and popped them together. I trusted the seller when he said he had wormed him, but I guess I shouldn't have  :(
Oh well ......

i always find "he's been wormed" a loaded statement. how long ago and with what product.  ive bought lambs and been told theyre done for fluke, only to find out it was a white wormer 30 days ago

 

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2021. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS