Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Bird flu  (Read 7857 times)

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
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Re: Bird flu
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2020, 12:00:55 pm »
The problem is some replies are getting mixed up with hens and geese. Itís easy to bird proof a few hens. Confining  4 or more adult geese is not the same. The large enough enclosure I was thinking 12mt x 4mt  needs to be portable as the ground will be contaminated  after a couple of days. The stress on geese that have been free range and lived by grazing for 4 years will cause problems as this could go on till March.
With respect, it is not a lot different.  I had to do it last year with my ducks, which I think would create the same problems as geese except that they need grass. They are such mucky things!  :'(   It's a bit more work.  You need to clean your flooring up every day.  It takes time, and I can understand if you have other commitments it may not be possible.

I was lucky that I had a barn, and was able to obtain vinyl for the floor.  But i believe they can be left outside if netted - perhaps you could do it in strips and move regularly to prevent poaching, just ensuring that each bit of fresh ground is clean - maybe a tarp on it, that could be hosed down when moving to the next piece of ground?  Would that work?
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2020, 12:05:48 pm »
I go from observations farm chickens turkeys maybe ducks etc are often mainly reared in sheds, I donít know of any confined shed reared geese, it doesnít work.  Itís not a bit of extra rain or sun thatís going to wipe us all out, itís the animal viruses. Bats in China, farm animals elsewhere. Actually that raises a question. Are all poultry viruses associated with shed reared birds.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 12:59:24 pm by harry »

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2020, 12:49:56 pm »
I go from observations farm chickens turkeys maybe ducks etc are often mainly reared in sheds, I donít know of any confined shed reared geese, it doesnít work.  Itís not a bit of extra rain or sun thatís going to wipe us all out, itís the human and animal viruses

It can work as a temporary measure.  It did for our geese last time.  As I said before, our geese spent the night in their house as usual, in the morning they were walked the short distance to our veg garden, which is fenced (usually against them but this time to keep them in).  There is grass in there, perhaps not as much as they had free ranging over several acres, but enough to keep them foraging, and wild birds simply don't go into that area as the fences are high and they are scared of the small area.  We feed the geese a little supplementary grain inside their house at night - as you say, gone in moments. We fill a dog paddling pool with fresh water every day for their ablutions (amazingly three geese can get in there together and still wash and preen). Our geese didn't suffer at all, I can say with confidence. The proof of our system is that we didn't get bird 'flu on our premises then.    I think you have to think laterally about your problem, or cull the birds.  What is not acceptable, especially as you are so close to outbreaks, is doing nothing and just crossing your fingers.

Given the way the Norfolk turkey industry works, it seems likely that the cases found in housed turkeys have been imported on lorries from the continent, so be very careful about your own biosecurity.  We have large red biosecurity no entry signs on our gates, but still people just walk in and say 'oh I didn't see it'  ??? So you have to be vigilant.   You must have disinfectant foot dips with a brush at every entrance, to be used both coming and going, and be very aware of where you drive and where others have driven before they come to your land.

Increasingly I am thinking that it would be better in your case to cull your geese (as long as you know how to do so properly) and replace them when the crisis is over.  You may have only four geese, but you could put other big businesses at risk, and the lives of many thousands of birds if you don't employ adequate restrictions.

I don't agree that 'it's not a bit of extra rain or sun that's going to wipe us out, it's..viruses'. Climate change is happening and if we don't do something fundamental to halt it then our Earth will simply become inhospitable to humanity.  At the moment, Earth is just flexing her muscles and shaking off a few extra humans to relieve the pressure a bit (that's Earth's point of view, not mine).
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2020, 01:08:45 pm »
Yes I agree cull them all. But not what I wanted to do. My geese are essentially semi wild, how do they compare to all the wild ducks, geese we have in the Norfolk broads where I live. What difference will it make culling my 4, probably none but I will do it.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 01:46:22 pm by harry »

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2020, 02:19:47 pm »
Yes I agree cull them all. But not what I wanted to do. My geese are essentially semi wild, how do they compare to all the wild ducks, geese we have in the Norfolk broads where I live. What difference will it make culling my 4, probably none but I will do it.

 :hug:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2020, 04:34:42 pm »
Yes I agree cull them all. But not what I wanted to do. My geese are essentially semi wild, how do they compare to all the wild ducks, geese we have in the Norfolk broads where I live. What difference will it make culling my 4, probably none but I will do it.

The difference is that yours haven't just flown in from countries where bird 'flu is rife, so yours have minimal risk if you could come up with a method to protect them from the migrant birds.  Sad but I think that for you it might be the way to go.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2020, 05:21:10 pm »
I can understand the risk to those making a living from their birds whether they are pheasants, chickens, turkeys etc but considering all the wild birds there are I can see little point in the rest of us housing birds.


I can see little point in culling your geese to get some more to cull the next time round. I also don't think it is that difficult to make them a penned and covered area to keep the authorities happy and keep your geese. They might not like it at first but you wont know if you don't try.




harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2020, 06:23:19 pm »
 I used to kill mine every December before for my own consumption, just 2-3 a year. Last time I purchased a breeding pair which I have now. I am going back to the Xmas geese again then this problem wonít arise

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
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Re: Bird flu
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2020, 12:08:43 pm »
Just do what you want. I think you want to kill them anyway - maybe to make your life easier. 

Find some friends who want a goose for Christmas.

We've all given you sensible solutions for you to keep them alive but you are finding difficulties every time, So just do it.

Sorry to be blunt - not being offensive.  I'm still a WYSIWYG  :innocent:
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2020, 03:53:33 pm »
Yes doganjo after investing in a breeding pair in spring last year and anticipating a good supply of fertile eggs this coming spring I do really want to kill this pair. I found someone to take them I offered them free, but they want to stick them in a pen at the bottom of the garden with their hens, not a good idea. By your own admission you have not had to confine geese and donít know there requirements. What you do think you are good at is reading a few lines from me and speculating my reasons for my decisions, sadly youíve got that wrong as well. I have changed my decision daily on how to not kill these birds which is the fate for 1000s of other geese this week being Xmas. I have another location to inspect as they want them. I have a week to save them. Perhaps you will take them. A shelter on my land is a non starter due to the area I live in and a covernent. As you advised I will do what I want but your comments will not be a factor in my decision as they are irrelevant. I suspect there are 1000s of poultry keepers not bothering to stick by the rules, not me,  are you? Offence taken
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 04:35:15 pm by harry »

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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Re: Bird flu
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2020, 05:03:18 pm »
Yes my four wyandottes are covered and my quail are in a shed.  You did not mention a covenant. That does make a difference.  But I can assure you I have experience of keeping ducks inside due to avian flu and it worked fine.  Apart from geese needing grass I see no difference.  You only have four - is it very difficult?

There is another thread going on just now on the same topic.  there are useful suggestions on there too
https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php?topic=81344.msg755797;topicseen#new
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 05:07:53 pm by doganjo »
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2020, 05:26:45 pm »
Had another thought! I occasionally do. Does anyone have experience of feeding geese with hay. I feed a supplement  of pellets in winter but I may be able to house them in an old horse trailer with bird proof netting run. Thatís not a fixed structure as it has wheels, thatís allowed on my land. Geese donít eat long grass wondered about hay bales. Had a look at the other thread but again no mention of geese, not as easy as a few hens.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 05:33:10 pm by harry »

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2020, 05:33:09 pm »
Hmmmm, I don't think they'll eat hay, I'm afraid.

We were in a similar situation to you the last time this happened Harry, and as I posted on another thread, we decided at that the geese really weren't working out for us anyway, and stuck them in a cassoulet. So, if you decide to do that, I don't think anybody could blame you.

However, if you want to keep them, just keep them! You can make a covered area easily enough, and yes, they'll turn it to mud, but honestly, I think they'd be cool with that if they knew the alternative. If you feed them on layers pellets and the occasional cabbage, they'll manage just fine.



Just a thought, TAS hive mind: what about grass pellets?  Perhaps even pre-soaked?  Do you think geese might go for them?
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2020, 05:37:11 pm »
I think they might try anything if they are hungry. Will get a bale of hay just in case they do eat it.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2020, 05:54:02 pm »
I think they might try anything if they are hungry. Will get a bale of hay just in case they do eat it.


No way hay will work, but having straw on the ground will help alleviate the mud a bit. If they are used to grain/pellets than they will eat that. Greenery - like cabbage/savoy/broccoli, maybe spinach will work should work as well. There isn't much nutrition in the grass in winter anyway.


We did the same as Womble, decided the geese weren't working for us (though it wasn't bird flu related). Shame as I loved to have them around....

 

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