Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Bird flu  (Read 4156 times)

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Bird flu
« on: December 03, 2020, 07:06:44 pm »
Had an email today. I must house my poultry in the next few days. I have four free range geese enclosed in a 1acre field by electric fence. used as lawnmowers and egg layers. I suppose I now have to kill them, these are isolated from human contact.

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2020, 07:19:47 pm »
You donít need to kill them. But you do need to either keep them in a covered pen or inside in a stable or similar. Easiest way is to build a walk in enclosure and cover it with fine netting.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2020, 10:01:26 am »
Have you got a polytunnel or similar? Would be a shame to kill them simply because of the (probably quite low) threat of a non-pathogenic (to humans) strain of bird flu.




Richmond

  • Joined Sep 2020
  • Norfolk
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2020, 11:41:05 am »
I believe the situation with waterfowl is that as long as their water and feed cannot be accessed by wild birds they can stay outside. Supervise feeding times and remove all containers afterwards.
The birds' welfare is paramount and if shutting them in will stress them unduly (which it will with ducks/geese) then they should stay out.

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2020, 01:30:06 pm »
Richmond. Where did you read your interpretation of the rules cos thatís the only way for me other than killing they are fenced free range access to stream that I could close off and supplement feed this time of year due to poor quality of grass. I can supervise feed session and have a dripping hose for water but a bird proof enclosure is a non starter. How long does this go on. No cases in Norfolk I think. Donít think closing access to stream will make any difference as itís running water.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 01:34:43 pm by harry »

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2020, 01:45:18 pm »
We too are hoping that this year's rules include that water birds do not have to be locked in, for their welfare. It went on until spring the year before last (was it?)
We shut our hens in the polytunnel for the whole of that winter - it's fairly large and they were happy as sandboys.  Rats were a problem inevitably, and our winter brassicas were destroyed.  The geese we walked to the veggie garden, which is fenced, each morning, and back to their house each night, minimal fuss, no wild bird incursions.
Just like Norfolk (I used to live there) here in Scotland we have no cases so far, but we do have a lot of migrating birds.  We feed our wild birds in the front garden, to which our poultry has no access.  I judge the water fowl risk by the number of splats on the polytunnel - only a couple in 25 years, as their usual route is along the river, down in the valley.
Last time, people made make-shift enclosures of any materials they had, the most important bit being to cover the top to keep out contaminants, or they adapted other sheds (maybe a garden shed and make a wire mesh pen for grazing).  Usually there are enough bits of wood and so on which can be repurposed to make your enclosure. Four geese are not many to make provision for - think of all the free range Christmas turkeys which will suddenly have to be housed for a couple of weeks.


I'm sure further guidance will follow, meanwhile, unless you want to eat your geese for Christmas anyway, spend the time constructing a temporary enclosure for them.  Ours are pets and they will survive!   
                       Above all - DON'T PANIC  8)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 01:49:57 pm by Fleecewife »
Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the the lifeblood of your land.

Richmond

  • Joined Sep 2020
  • Norfolk
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2020, 04:58:08 pm »
Richmond. Where did you read your interpretation of the rules cos thatís the only way for me other than killing they are fenced free range access to stream that I could close off and supplement feed this time of year due to poor quality of grass. I can supervise feed session and have a dripping hose for water but a bird proof enclosure is a non starter. How long does this go on. No cases in Norfolk I think. Donít think closing access to stream will make any difference as itís running water.

During the last bout of bird flu the chief vet for DEFRA said (at some point into the lockdown) that if certain birds were likely to get unduly stressed by housing eg waterfowl then they could be allowed outside for supervised bathing and feeding, so I can't see why it should be any different this time round.

If your stream is used by wild waterfowl then this may be a problem Harry, also any ponds, as they would be used by wild birds also, but you could put a paddling pool within an enclosure and fill it with clean water prior to each use.  My geese are outside too although I shut my ducks into a stable overnight. However they would go stir crazy if I kept them in there all day as well - they are pretty desperate to get out each morning as it is!





harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2020, 05:15:25 pm »
[this is the email and it says ALL BIRDS. Anyone knows how much and adult emden  needs to maintain health with no grass. table]
Due to the risk of avian influenza, new housing measures to protect poultry and captive birds will come into force on 14 December in England, Scotland and Wales. It will be a legal requirement for all bird keepers to keep their birds indoors and to follow strict biosecurity measures. More at GOV.?UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/avian-influenza-bird-flu-national-prevention-zone-declared, GOV.SCOT: https://www.gov.scot/news/new-housing-measures-to-protect-poultry-and-captive-birds-against-avian-flu/ and GOV.WALES: https://gov.wales/new-housing-measures-protect-poultry-and-captive-birds-against-avian-flu
[/t][/t]
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 05:32:54 pm by harry »

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2020, 10:29:27 pm »
Indoors means under cover so that no wild birds can get in or drop their poo in.  Do they need running water? Can they not use a child's paddling pool for a short time(mine cost £10) ?  Could you buy a large tarpaulin (they are only a few pounds) and attach it to a run of some sort.  That is what I've done and my four wyandottes will be in a run with the tarp over it. Their water will be in the middle where it cannot be accessed by any other birds.  My quail are in a shed anyway

Surely restricting your birds area is preferable to them dying?
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2020, 11:20:18 pm »
To be fair, the advice is somewhat contradictory:

Quote
it will be a legal requirement for all bird keepers to keep their birds indoors and to follow strict biosecurity measures in order to limit the spread of and eradicate the disease.

But it then goes on to say

Quote
Poultry and captive bird keepers are advised to be vigilant for any signs of disease in their birds and any wild birds, and seek prompt advice from their vet if they have any concerns. They can help prevent avian flu by maintaining good biosecurity on their premises, including: housing or netting all poultry and captive birds

* cleansing and disinfecting clothing, footwear, equipment and vehicles before and after contact with poultry and captive birds Ė if practical, use disposable protective clothing
* reducing the movement of people, vehicles or equipment to and from areas where poultry and captive birds are kept, to minimise contamination from manure, slurry and other products, and using effective vermin control.
* thoroughly cleaning and disinfecting housing at the end of a production cycle
* keeping fresh disinfectant at the right concentration at all points where people should use it, such as farm entrances and before entering poultry and captive bird housing or enclosures
* minimising direct and indirect contact between poultry and captive birds and wild birds, including making sure all feed and water is not accessible to wild birds

So I don't think it's as black and white as "all birds must be housed". Different people will be able to comply to different degrees also. I for one, have no idea yet what we're going to do this time around. Last time was just desperate - we did what we could by providing a covered run, but they were absolutely miserable, and it went on for months.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Perris

  • Joined Mar 2017
  • Gower
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2020, 09:28:43 am »
my reading is like Richmond's and Womble's, and if you follow the links in that email Harry, and read what's said there, you will find it is not nearly as categorical. It points out there that the standard bird welfare rules still apply (as do planning regs!) and states ďWhether you keep just a few birds or thousands, from 14 December onwards you will be legally required to keep your birds indoors, or take appropriate steps to keep them separate from wild birdsĒ and "minimising direct and indirect contact between poultry and captive birds and wild birds, including making sure all feed and water is not accessible to wild birds". If you do your best to meet these requirements, you will be fine.
BTW, a case in Norfolk is reported this morning, I'm sorry to say.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2020, 09:48:48 am »
Had an email today. I must house my poultry in the next few days. I have four free range geese enclosed in a 1acre field by electric fence. used as lawnmowers and egg layers. I suppose I now have to kill them, these are isolated from human contact.
So there you are @harry - no need to kill your birds
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Possum

  • Joined Feb 2012
  • Somerset
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2020, 06:32:20 pm »
Scaffolders netting is lengthy, cheap and easily available on-line. It has a fine mesh so is good for covering feeding and bathing areas so that wild birds cannot gain access.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2020, 10:16:29 pm »
..... it does also hold snow though, so if you use it, be careful of that.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

harry

  • Joined Mar 2009
Re: Bird flu
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2020, 11:16:34 am »
The problem is some replies are getting mixed up with hens and geese. Itís easy to bird proof a few hens. Confining  4 or more adult geese is not the same. The large enough enclosure I was thinking 12mt x 4mt  needs to be portable as the ground will be contaminated  after a couple of days. The stress on geese that have been free range and lived by grazing for 4 years will cause problems as this could go on till March. Keeping feed separate from wild birds, do many wild birds eat grass, so if my geese still free range feed should not be a problem. I give them a scoop of pellets this time of year, all gone in 5 mins, water in a bucket maybe a few inches below the top so birds canít access. I think I have then covered the drink and feed section. Big sign near gate NO ENTRY BIOSECURITY. Hope that would suggest I tried my best, but housing or netting is not an option for me or the geese welfare. Keep fingers crossed and hope I donít get a gov visit. Nearest outbreak near me is 10 mile away. Gov does a 10 kl observation zone from an outbreak. Outbreaks mainly in turkey sheds so problem may go after Xmas.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 12:02:29 pm by harry »

 

New bird!

Started by little blue (5.87)

Replies: 6
Views: 3189
Last post November 01, 2009, 11:29:25 pm
by doganjo
bird flu

Started by northfifeduckling (5.87)

Replies: 807
Views: 129082
Last post May 05, 2017, 09:10:39 pm
by doganjo
Bird flu

Started by Jethro Tull (5.87)

Replies: 11
Views: 3783
Last post February 03, 2018, 07:46:04 pm
by New Riverside Farm
Bird Flu

Started by mintytwoshoes (5.87)

Replies: 37
Views: 2600
Last post April 02, 2021, 11:27:07 am
by doganjo
Bird Fair

Started by carole (5.81)

Replies: 3
Views: 6470
Last post January 21, 2008, 12:09:45 pm
by chrisgod

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2021. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS