[in the hills]

I personally wouldn't leave my children with the dog with only the grandparents in charge.


I know it's a delicate and sensitive situation but from your description I wouldn't feel confident that your in laws have either control over the dog or that they realise the potential danger of their dog. I would have expected a big apology and a discussion of how to deal with future contact between the dog and children when they visit and I would have expected that to come from them.

[in the hills]

Is the dog crate trained?


I think I'd want the dog in a crate at times when I couldn't be there to help supervise.


If they want to bring him when they visit that would personally be my compromise.

[Fleecewife]

Going back to the original situation, petted dog on FILs lap, child piling on top - this is how puppies play, and they nip each other often enough. As they grow, so this should be trained out of them.  So presumably the dog was jealous of someone trying to oust him from his favoured position and was showing his rival who's boss. The dog and FIL learned nothing from the event!


Perhaps a few case studies would help to illustrate your concern to them. There was a spate of young children being attacked by 'the family dog', often when being looked after by grandparents.  Dogs seem to go for the faces of children, causing extreme scarring and in some horrible cases, the child dies (and sometimes the grandparent goes to jail).  You are absolutely not over-reacting to the situation - it's a potentially very serious one - and it is your duty as a parent to take all necessary steps to ensure your children's safety. 


Sometimes you have to upset someone by giving them the truth, in this case that their behaviour falls short of safe, and that although you are delighted they come to stay and are involved in the care of your children, they do so under your rules.  Sure, they'll take a huff, which should wear off in a while, but even if it doesn't, at least your children will be safe.  Seriously if your in-laws truly take offense at this then the problem is theirs not yours.

[Backinwellies]

Ok having had time to think .... am very worried that dog is higher in pecking order than children (the fact that inlaws didn't seem to worry about this and would not come to visit if dog couldn't come too ... and do what it likes!..... says it all) .

hmmmmm.......

MIL has concerns but is not putting foot down or training dog.
 FiL doesn't seem to think anything wrong with wrestling with a young dog and young child together. 
Husband who doesn't want to rock boat.

You ARE NOT over reacting.  Dogs MUST be trained to be at bottom of pecking order. (being on owners lap encourages higher pecking order!)   Young children should not be allowed to encroach on dogs private space either.

Very difficult for you but boundaries are needed here for safety of everyone ... including the dog.

[sabrina]

I have 3 dogs one of which is a 15 year old Jack Russell. He has always been great with my grandchildren but now that he is older not so much. He is never left with them and they have been taught that he now needs his own space as he gets tired. I think it is very important that  children learn how to behave around animals. They are not toys and will bite if pushed too far. I would not expect to take any off my dogs to my daughter-in-laws houses. They each have their own dogs anyway. There is always enough going on with the children without adding my dogs. The safety of any child must come first. Your in-laws should understand that without question. Any untrained dog is a risk, one that thinks its the boss even worse. Train the dog and the children on how to behave is important for both sides.

[SallyintNorth]

Coming back with some more reactions...  1. I too am rather disturbed that FIL wasn't bothered that his grandson was bitten in the face by a dog.  Tell him that the most common injury caused to male children by dogs is emasculation - that's the height the snap would be if they are both on the ground - and see if he gets the message. Tell your OH too, if he needs convincing that the status quo is not ok.   2.  Just wanted to add my concurrence with the idea of the dog having a crate that he's used to using, which is his safe place and in which he can be shut when you are not there and the grandPs are looking after the children. 

[Buttermilk]

The suggestions of a crate are ok BUT would FIL comply with using it while you are out.

Personally I would insist that the dog is kenneled or remains at home with one of the in laws while the other visits. 

My sister carries the scars from my dog nipping her, totally not the dogs fault as she went into its crate wanting to play houses. There was a huge family arguement as my mother was insisting the dog got pts.  Only sister admitting it was her actions which caused the situation saved the dog, who never nipped again while living to a ripe old age.

[doganjo]

Put it this way - if the dog had bitten a non family member it would probably now be dead. 

Dogs do not get a second chance if they bite.

A few years ago, I had to take a young dog that I bred back and have it destroyed because it's owner gave it a bone then allowed their 7 year old to go and try to cuddle it.  It wasn't the dog's fault nor the child's, but the dog was killed and I am still angry with the parents of that child.

I would NEVER leave any of my three dogs unattended or even without me personally in the same room even though all of them have been properly trained and absolutely adore human beings.

You must tell your father in law that his dog must be trained or it is not welcome.

Your children's health may depend upon it

Sorry for being blunt.  That's what I am.

[Ghdp]

Others may have more experience but this is my penny worth. This is perhaps about the dog knowing its place, knowing that it is not. ‘In charge’ and respecting your children. We had a dog that growled at ( not nipped) our younger son. We made a family decision that not only would the dog eat after us ( a situation already established) but that our youngest would feed her, tell her to wait momentarily before being given permission to eat and then let her eat.
Could you perhaps suggest that in your home, given what has happened,  this is what you would now want to do if they bring their dog? It is a non judgmental decision about how your in laws treat their dogs in their home but places you and your family’s rules in place in a way the dog may understand.
Again not wantingto sound as if this is easy; we never had a problem again.
Hope that is food for thought and helps

[honeyend]

My children were taught that dogs are not play things and were taught to leave them alone unless it was supervised play with an adult and the play was something like throwing a ball. They were taught this from being very small, I had dogs before I had children. The dog to me sees that the child is higher in the group than a pack mate. My children never played with the dogs in the house.
  I would lose my s*** with the FIL, I once did this with my mother when I caught her with my daughter sat on her lap in the front seat of the car. Basically the childs welfare comes first over any hurt feelings, but you need to set an example. On all sides this behaviour has to be nipped in the bud. The only play is supervised by an adult. I sure there will be some graphic images on the internet of facial injuries to enforce you argument, and that is your rule or the IL are not left alone with your children, or you put the dog in an outside kennel.

[Foobar]

Teach your kids the rules about being around dogs (and how to tell the dog "no"), then get your kids to teach the dog boundaries - the dog is visiting often enough for you and your children to make a difference to it's behaviour.  It will be good for your kids too - they will enjoy teaching it tricks etc.  Forget the MIL and FIL they clearly don't give a hoot about doing anything about it - however if they see the kids trying they might join in.

[YorkshireLass]

If the thought of shutting the dog away or using a crate is horrifying to the in-laws (    ), at the very least I would insist on separation with a baby-gate. That way pup and child can at least still see each other and what is happening, and FIL / MIL are not really separated from their dog.


My dog can't cope with the high pitched voices, general screaming, running around, flying toys etc that children bring - so we avoid children OR I am there and she is by my side. It's not fair on dog or child to let the situation go unchecked.

[tonyd]

Your house your rules.
Ok the dog needs more training (and the in-laws by the sound of it) and the kids need to learn how to play / interact with the dog but I would definetly not leave them together without constant supervision.
I have two dogs and 10 grandkids a springer and an terrier who is now 12 years old and  getting grumpy. All the grandkids know that places like the dogs beds are no go areas and any small spaces with dogs also (behind chairs etc). The kids interact with the dogs but any running around or games then the dogs are the other side of the gate looking in if they want to. My dogs are never in a room alone with kids there has never been a problem but its a rule we have always had in our house since we have had the dogs / kids combo.
Ive had dogs all my life BUT I would never trust one 100% no matter how well trained they are. I think you are right to be concerned and the points you have raised here should be raised with your partner and in-laws TOGETHER.
If your in-laws are upset or offended then so be it, a dogs nip is either play OR a warning either way it needs to sorted out fast. Its a very thin line between a little nip and a full blown bite and no one wants that. Good luck,