NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Help with Holding Numbers etc  (Read 855 times)

spidge

  • Joined Mar 2018
Help with Holding Numbers etc
« on: March 12, 2018, 08:33:28 pm »
Hi all,

I have recently acquired a couple of acres to rent, which I intent to graze sheep for fattening. The owner has kindly let me use their holding number, which I have. I just wanted to know (as a complete novice), what I need to do with regards to registering my flock on that holding number. Can anyone help me get my head around what I need to do with regards to paperwork, movement records etc. Do I fill out the holding register as it will only be used by my sheep at present?

Any help gratefully received.
Thank you.
Voss Electric Fence

Dan

  • The Accidental Smallholder
  • Administrator
  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Carnoustie, Angus
    • The Accidental Smallholder
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Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2018, 08:36:56 am »
Welcome spidge, and good luck with your sheep.

You'll find a bunch of articles here about sheep-keeping:

https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/sheep/

This one will take you through flock registration:

https://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/sheep/starting-with-sheep/

HTH,

Dan

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2018, 08:50:45 am »
In brief, you'll let Animal Helath know that you'll be getting sheep and they'll issue you with a flock number.  (You don't actually need the flock number until you have lambs born on your holding.)

You'll buy sheep who already have ear tags, with the flock number of the holding where they were born.  The seller will fill in paperwork (or use the computerised version) to tell the ministry that the sheep are moving to your holding; you'll each keep a copy and you'll send the top copy to Defra (or tell the computer you've received them).  They'll then know which sheep have moved to your holding.

That's it!
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Marches Farmer

  • Joined Dec 2012
  • Herefordshire
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2018, 09:32:43 am »
The holding number goes with the land, not with the owner, grazier, flock or herd.  It's a CPH number, which is County/Parish/Holding.

nimbusllama

  • Joined Nov 2010
  • Near Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2018, 10:12:35 am »
You don't say what other livestock the landlord has, or if your rented couple of acres is separate or adjacent to the landlord's holding.
If it is separate and you are renting for some time I would look at applying for your own holding number, otherwise you will have to constantly liaise with the landlord to be sure neither of you breach the six day standstill period when you bring new stock in to the shared holding.  In other words if you have lambs booked into the abattoir and the landlord suddenly buys some sheep, you wouldn't be able to take them until after six clear days.  If the landlord no longer keeps stock then you don't have that problem.  I am basing this on what would happen if you had bought the land, if my information is incorrect I am sure someone will tell me  :)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2018, 10:51:22 am »
In other words if you have lambs booked into the abattoir and the landlord suddenly buys some sheep, you wouldn't be able to take them until after six clear days. 

Actually you can still take animals to the abattoir, or a red (slaughter) market, when you’re on a standstill.  But if you’d planned to take some sheep to a show, or take your ewes to a tup, and the landlord brought some sheep on, then you’d have to wait a week to move yours.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

nimbusllama

  • Joined Nov 2010
  • Near Mansfield, Nottinghamshire
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 03:52:12 pm »
Thanks Sally, for clearing that up...  :thumbsup:

spidge

  • Joined Mar 2018
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 08:31:48 pm »
Thanks very much everyone. All the information is very helpful!

spidge

  • Joined Mar 2018
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2018, 09:51:41 pm »
In brief, you'll let Animal Helath know that you'll be getting sheep and they'll issue you with a flock number.  (You don't actually need the flock number until you have lambs born on your holding.)

You'll buy sheep who already have ear tags, with the flock number of the holding where they were born.  The seller will fill in paperwork (or use the computerised version) to tell the ministry that the sheep are moving to your holding; you'll each keep a copy and you'll send the top copy to Defra (or tell the computer you've received them).  They'll then know which sheep have moved to your holding.

That's it!

Hi Sally,

I have bought sheep from a market. They have given me paperwork and believe, they inform DEFRA of the move to my holding number (the land I am renting). I believe I now need to confirm this with DEFRA too? Can you confirm how I do this online?  I assume I need to register somewhere?

Many thanks,
Simon

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2018, 10:13:18 pm »
Normally there’s 4 parts to a movement form- the top white paper goes to ARAMS (animal movement service)/Defra/ministry whatever you want to call it , one copy to the transporter, one to the arrival destination and 1 copy to the departing destination (I can’t remember off hand which is which but it will say at the bottom which colour copy goes where, there will be a yellow, pink and blue paper). So the market should have sent the white copy to the movement people. If you’ve got that white copy- send it off to the address on the bottom. Then record the movement in your flock book and keep the copy with it. If you transported the sheep too, keep that copy as well.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2018, 07:18:38 am »
Yes it's the top, white copy that gets sent back to Animal Health.  The recipient sends it, after completing the arrival information.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

spidge

  • Joined Mar 2018
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2018, 09:20:31 pm »
Thank you guys...that makes sense. However, the confusion (for me) continues lol.

I started to register with ARAMS today, and they were asking for a flock/herd mark. I called the Animal Health people (i think) to register the flock, and they told me that they wouldn't give that to me, if my sheep were kept under the landowners holding number as apparently, it means they (as the land owners) would ultimately be responsible. Instead, they told me to register for a 'landless holders account'. I get the impression that this is a holding number for someone who doesn't own land, but might use different location???

I called the correct department and they are setting this up for me. However, I then need to work out how I move the sheep from the old holding number to my new one (even though I've not completed the process for the first move).

Does the flock number refer to the sheep I have at the moment, e.g. specific to the tags. Or, can the sheep change (as I buy and sell) within the same flock number.

Sorry for the 101 questions...just bit of a minefield for a complete newbie who has worked with, but never owned livestock before.

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2018, 07:14:38 am »
The flock number covers all the sheep that you have at any time.  Any lambs born while you have their dams will get given tags with your flock number on them.  I am unable to help regarding holding transfer but it sounds like you should use your own holding number from the start.

Perhaps give ARAMS a ring and use a second transfer form identical to the first except your holding number and not the farmers.  Send both in together with a covering note BUT do contact ARAMS first.

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Help with Holding Numbers etc
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2018, 08:48:38 am »
What paperwork did you leave the market with? When you move sheep between holdings, to a market etc most people use the paper copy of the movement licence but a market may not to licence the sheep off the market holding. They should have given you something which you can use to confirm the move though. When I have bought from a market I have been given a pass out and another printed sheet which I signed and returned to ARAMS by post. You don't need to be online to do that. 




 

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