[Womble]

OK, so I've just been to my local Ifor Williams dealer to enquire about buying a flat-bed trailer. However, when I told them that I needed something that would take a 1 tonne payload, and that I was restricted because I passed my test in 1999, they told me that I was stuffed in that I was limited to a trailer plus load of 750kg max, and that it also had to be un-braked, regardless of the weight.

Now my reading of the rules had been that category B entitlement allowed me to drive a total rig of up to 3500 kg, which in my case would comprise a Landrover Defender (1800 kg ish), the trailer (approx 500 kg) and the load (1000 kg). This should just squeak in under the 3500 kg limit as long as the trailer is light enough and provided I lay off the pies for a bit. [EDIT - it turns out this isn't true; see post below]

So, I've just checked the DVLA website (see attachment), and it says

You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) and up to 8 passenger seats, and a driver, with trailer up to 750kg; trailers over 750kg if combined weight of vehicle and trailer isn’t over 3,500kg and the fully-loaded trailer doesn’t weigh more than the unladen vehicle

So help me out folks. I know I can take an additional B+E category trailer test, but I really want to avoid having to do that as it's not cheap. However, the Ifor chap was really adamant about it all, and now I'm trying to figure out what I've misunderstood  

[Rosemary]

1999 - you're just a wean 

[henchard]

If you passed your car driving test between 1 January 1997 and 18 January 2013, you can:
 

• drive a car or van up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
• tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg
  
  
  
  https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow

[Womble]

OK, I think I've got it now - it's not the actual mass you're towing that counts, it's the Maximum Authorised Mass.

So, whilst the Landy weighs about 1800 kg, I believe it's MAM is 2400 kg. That means I've only got 1100 kg left to play with, which is not going to allow me to transport a load of 1000 kg. Damn 

(I still don't get what Trailer Man said though, nor can I find anything about only being allowed to tow un-braked trailers).

1999 - you're just a wean 

I was quite old when I finally got around to taking my test Rosemary, as I had to wait until I was working to afford lessons. It looks as though that has come back to bite me now though.


The irony is that Mrs Womble would be able to tow the trailer without any issue, and indeed I would be ok to tow it myself as long as I slapped some L-plates on and took her with me. Bummer!

[Creagan]

Can't you tow 1700kg with your Landy? 1700+1800= 3500kg and the trailer is less than the vehicle.

[Womble]

That's what I thought to begin with Creagan, but I now believe that interpretation is wrong; it's not the weight of the vehicle that counts; it's the maximum authorised weight for that vehicle, which then puts me over the limits (see my post just above)  .

[bloomer]

Short version is ivor Williams.chap is correct. Your stuffed, glad I passed in '94...

Other than cost I believe the additional test isn't hard to pass with a bit of practice to eliminate bad habits...

[landroverroy]

 Bloomer's right - the test isn't difficult - my 2 sons passed with no probs.
 The main drawback, as you mention is the cost. So looks like you need to bite the bullet and save up/ get an overdraft/ rob a small bank (if there's any still open) and take the test. You will then finds this opens up a whole new range of possibilities of things you can do with your new trailer.
 Or swallow your pride and let Mrs Womble drive whenever you want to tow anything worth towing.

 There is of course another option - presumably you look old enough to have passed your test sufficiently long enough ago that you wouldn't now need to do your B +E . So you could just pretend that this is in fact what happened, and ask yourself what are the chances of being caught, and indeed is it a hanging offence if you do?
 Or, as Clint Eastwood said, "you need to ask yourself punk - do you feel lucky?"

[SallyintNorth]

 There is of course another option - presumably you look old enough to have passed your test sufficiently long enough ago that you wouldn't now need to do your B +E . So you could just pretend that this is in fact what happened, and ask yourself what are the chances of being caught, and indeed is it a hanging offence if you do?
 Or, as Clint Eastwood said, "you need to ask yourself punk - do you feel lucky?"

Always assuming you are cool with driving with invalid insurance :/

[Womble]

let Mrs Womble drive whenever you want to tow anything worth towing.

That's one option, though Mrs Womble hates driving just the Landy, let alone towing a trailer. "Anything worth towing" doesn't seem to be an option though. My reading of the links above is that I can't tow even an empty trailer if its plated capacity covers anything 'worth towing'!  The weird thing is that since my license includes provisional B+E entitlement, all I need to do is take a couple of L-plates and Mrs Womble with me, and then I'm good! Strange rules eh?


I know many would just get on with it and forget the rules, but that's not for me. Yes, it's unlikely that I'd get caught, but the most likely time for it to come to light after an accident, which as Sally says is not the time to discover you've got no insurance!


I still haven't decided what to do. The extra cost and hassle of the test may mean the whole thing is no longer worthwhile. I already have a small trailer, and I reckon it's going to take maybe 10 years to 'pay back' vs the extra cost of having all the heavy stuff delivered instead. Maybe I'll just get Bloomer to do all that for me! 

[oor wullie]

The Ifor man is technically wrong but, as you are finding out, the reality is not too far from it.

As the DvLA quote says you can tow up to a train weight of 3.5t as long as the trailer is lighter than the car (and if that means the trailer is over 750kg it must be braked) however they use MAM so you would probably have to get the trailer re-plated to show whatever Max weight you need to make the sums add up.
Do the test and they use actual weight not MAM to work things out!