[farmershort]

Hi All,

I should start by saying that I have previously owned a beautiful 1966 Massey 165, and did plenty of repair work on it, so I'm ok on the generalities of looking for a tractor...

what I don't know is the detail around which other makes/models are going to fit the bill for the new smallholding. I remember that our 165 for example had a very primative front loader on it, with a crude lever operated "tip" for the front bucket. There was obviously no fancy 3 way hydraulics option back then!

This is what I think we need:

• older tractor - anything simple to work on, but not so "classic" that it's too weak for most jobs
• strong 3 point linkage - in case we go down the post knocker route
• multi-hydraulic front loader options, so that we can have up/down and tilt
• red is a distinct favourite in my book

I seem to remember that the Massey 165, and possibly the john deere 2040 were popular older tractors 10 years ago for smallholder type stuff. I have no experience JD stuff, except perhaps my old neighbours JD 7410 - but that was a bloomin monster!!!!

I was thinking that some of the older ford/leyland stuff might fit the bill.... possibly renault too? I think old Nuffield tractors have quite a weak 3 point linkage (I used to know an enthusiast).... and then the infamous Zetor.... I'm not sure if Zetors deserve their bad rep or not, but I've never driven a nice one. I assume there is a level of massey at which point you get the extra hydraulics, but I don't know what model(s) that would be.

I suppose the other thing is price range... we don't have a firm idea of this yet, but cheaper is better of course.

advice appreciated.

Adam

[farmershort]

I missed a bit - there seems to be a fair few MF 590 type things for sale generally at the moment.. I wonder if these are becoming a new smallholder favourite? They seem to be in the £2k to £5k threshold.

[stufe35]

Farmer short,

Id stick with your MF 165...they take one hell  of a lot of beating and are very reasonably priced.

A later 265  or 565 also have the same engine are pretty much the same thing underneath...same engine  and gearbox.

All id say is ...don't get a multi power model...its just something else to go wrong and the freewheel effect it has is alarming and annoying to say the least  if not downright dangerous in hilly countryside.

Some later models 565 (and possibly 265 im not sure) have whats known as an IPTO---its a hydraulic clutch for the PTO, which means you just move the lever to engage the PTO , you don't have the two stage foot clutch which I imagine you are familiar with.   I would AVOID IPTO models also...again its just something that can and does go wrong..

Make sure it has power steering.

An MF80 loader has hydraulic tip readily available.

One thing to consider is industrial MF 50   or industrial 165 models   ...again its a 165 underneath, but you get a dedicated hydraulic pump for the loader so it is faster and stronger, and later models have a self levelling loader which is an added benefit.  They make less money generally because they are not as collectable as red ones. 

The 590 has a slightly bigger engine, also good but same rules apply as above...equivalent models are 290 and 185.   

[farmershort]

Thanks Stufe, that's some useful info.

I had wondered what the multi-power thing was about.. it seems most of the 590-ish I've seen fall into that category. The IPTO - is that independant pto? I've seen that mentioned a few times on adverts for the bigger stuff too. I think on the 240/250 too.

I have noticed a few of the commercial MF165 industrials for sale on the bay this week - I'd never heard of them before so was a bit nervy about whether they were a "transit van" type version... i.e. cheap and cheerful. If they have extra hydraulics and a bit more power then they sound like they're ideal... I've got some spray kit, so I can always made it red

I don't suppose you know when the wet/dry brake systems were changed do you? I seem to remember that my '66 165 had dry brakes - well they did once I cracked the axles off and fixed the oil leak that was getting into the brake chamber! A lot of these newer/bigger models seem to state that they're wet-braked.... which sounds like an added pain.

[farmershort]

this little gem for example:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Massey-Ferguson-165-Industrial-/152074873262?hash=item23685e69ae:g:l6oAAOSw3mpXJja5

looks rough as old dogs, but I liked the line "the brakes don't work".... yep, I know that problem well!

[stufe35]

Wet brakes took over on the square axle models..im not sure quite when that was but fairly early in 165 production.

They are more difficult and expensive to fix, but are much more effective...and I should think youll only have them to fix once in your life time.

My brother in law has one and had them replaced a couple of years back . I think he was charged about £400 but I will check with him.

[stufe35]

And here his reply:

"Just one side of mine had an issue, my 165 has inboard dry disks and the inner drive shaft oil seal had gone.

Had to take drive shaft ‘trumpet’ off and do the drive shaft seal, fit new friction disks (think these are one unit)

Put it all back together.


Think I paid around £350 which I think was a bit on the pricey side, but it was more than I wanted to do.

I think later models went to wet disks so that particular issue goes away."


I like the ebay tractor, it has a self levelling loader and looks like it has third service..  you can clearly see the auxiliary pump at the front.  It appears to have no rear lift arms (picture isn't too clear)    you might be able to retrofit...just watch the costs...sometimes its earsier just to spend the extra money and have one that's ready to use.  eg this one looks like it needs new tyres...theres circa £600 straight away.  Front buckets aren't free either.

[farmershort]

And here his reply:

"Just one side of mine had an issue, my 165 has inboard dry disks and the inner drive shaft oil seal had gone.

Had to take drive shaft ‘trumpet’ off and do the drive shaft seal, fit new friction disks (think these are one unit)

Put it all back together.


Think I paid around £350 which I think was a bit on the pricey side, but it was more than I wanted to do.

I think later models went to wet disks so that particular issue goes away."


I like the ebay tractor, it has a self levelling loader and looks like it has third service..  you can clearly see the auxiliary pump at the front.  It appears to have no rear lift arms (picture isn't too clear)    you might be able to retrofit...just watch the costs...sometimes its earsier just to spend the extra money and have one that's ready to use.  eg this one looks like it needs new tyres...theres circa £600 straight away.  Front buckets aren't free either.

yeah that dry disc operation is exactly what happened with my 165.... the seal tried to convert them to wet discs! haha! It was a funny old job, and I started by assuming that the brakes were outboard of the body.... when I had a gallon of EP180 over the floor and an epicylcic hub in my arms, I realised I'd gone wrong!!!! Wasn't too bad a job to do yourself though I seem to remember... christ if I could do it back then, anyone can!

I've never done any brake changes on something with wet brakes, so I'll have to have a look into the proceedure a bit more.