[Superted]

Hi lads and ladies, don't know if it was mentioned before, couldn't find anything, but thinking of buying a few drop calves in and just putting in a loose pen. I have one in corner of hayshed, about 10 foot by 18 foot. Anybody any experience of this? its my first time with the calves and didn't want to have to start in building individual pens.

Is handy enough to feed them when they are loose? any hints/tips be appreciated

[shygirl]

i havent kept calves like this but have visited farmparks where they kept calves toegther in a small sheds and fed them milk by the bucket loads.

[SallyintNorth]

BH used to buy in calves and rear them on a bucket in loose pens.

His tips include:

• never buy a calf that's less than 1 month old
• test that they will suck - really suck - your fingers before you buy
• check that they've been on a bucket - or accept that you will have to bucket train them, and some of them will be really difficult
• only buy from a farm that's TB4, has been vaccinating for BvD for at least two years, other health accreditation is good, of course
• it's best to buy direct from farm, not through the ring, and build a relationship with the person who starts the calves.  If buying through the ring, only buy if you've had a chance to talk to the farmer and check the above

In terms of keeping them, give them a double dose of Pen & Strep on arrival to knock out any nasties they're bringing with them.  BH used to feed them PFS or similar for the first 24 hours, then introduce the milk replacer.

Some say it's best to feed good quality straw, rather than hay - but ours have always had good hay and done well.  It needs to be lovely soft hay, though, not scratchy or long or harsh.

Get them onto cake as fast as possible, and feed a little cake twice a day - it really helps to keep their digestion right.

Be scrupulously clean with all the milk paraphernalia.  Serve freshly-mixed milk at the same temperature each time.

On arrival, 1 month old, split the daily milk ration into at least 4 feeds a day.  Down to 3 after a couple of weeks if you want.  2 feeds a day not until they are properly eating cake twice a day.

Wash mouths / faces after feeding milk, and distract them until they forget about milk - otherwise they suck on each other and can suck each other's intestines out through their belly buttons.      My tactic is to put a little cake in their mouths when they've finished their milk - not only does it taste different but it starts to build an association of 'I eat cake after my milk' which is a boon when you come to wean   When they're very wee the cake-in-mouth trick won't stop them wanting to suck everything they can get their mouths on, so you have to wash all the milk off then play with them / groom them (not any play that involves them sucking anything, of course!) - whatever makes them stop thinking about sucking.

Calves need clean bedding, a dry bed, good ventilation. 

Scour is the biggest potential problem - if they become listless, if their poo goes buttercup yellow, take them off milk and give them PSF for 48 hours.  If they're not improving, or they have a temperature that isn't dropping, get the vet pronto.  They can decline and die pretty quick.   

If they rattle when they breathe, if they get out of breath / raspy when playing, and that doesn't go away fairly quickly when they stop, keep a close eye and if worried get the vet to check them over.  The next biggest problem / killer is pneumonia.

Also watch out for bloat - rumen distended and hard, instead of soft.  Learn to see/feel the rumen wave so you know they're digesting properly.  Keep yoghurt, ginger, vegetable oil, bicarb of soda handy to restart fermentation if they get bloated.

They're hard work, difficult until you know what you're doing - but delightful  and you should be able to turn a bit of a profit most of the time.  You will lose some, even BH used to lose maybe 1 in 15 - 20.  You'll lose more when you start, as you learn. 

Buy cheaper beef x dairy calves (by which I mean not such good sorts, not the top price Limousin or British Blue X type, maybe a Hereford X or an Angus X) at first so you learn on ones that won't break the bank   - they'll all make a similar profit if you rear them, except perhaps the very top draw, so it's just tying money up buying the top-priced calves   And Limi's can be difficult (mad), Charollais can be very hard to get them to drink properly; Herefords are generally pretty laid back and very greedy, so ideal

[si-mate]

I rear between 30 - 40 every year keeping them in pens of ideally 4 or 6. I buy mainly Sussex x Ayrshire from one farm and take them as soon as they have their passports - usually 2 - 4 weeks old.


The most important thing is to buy them from somewhere that has given them a good start. If they haven't had the right amount of colostrum you will be on a losing battle.


Once home they get put in an airy, but not drafty barn, on plenty of good straw with free access to wheat straw and a little bit of calf starter pellets. They won't eat a lot until 3 - 4 weeks old but having it there all the time will get them eating the quantity quicker.
Their first feed once home is a sachet of scour formula in 2 litres of water. Next morning they get a litre of milk and a litre of scour formula together. The third feed would be 2 litres of milk, then twice a day after that for a couple of weeks when I will gradually start increasing the milk volume with the view to dropping down to once a day feeding at 4 - 5 weeks.
Normally wean between 6 - 8 weeks, but they must be eating a good quantity of creep, recommended is 1kg / head / day for 3 days.


Between weaning a 12 weeks they get ad-lib straw and pellets of which they will start to each huge amounts. At 12 weeks I move them down to 1.5kg twice a day of cattle rearer nuts.


As said above everything must be kept scrupulously clean and I also disinfect the pens between batches. Ideally they should be pressure washed out between batches but my floor is chalk and walls are sleepers so I don't think there is any point in my case.


I think losing 1 calf in every 15 - 20 is a little pessimistic. I have lost 1 calf at 4 weeks old (died 3 days after collection) and another at 6 months out of the last 80 calves I have reared. Both were from the same farm at the same time and in hindsight I should have left them there.


A few other points:


1. Always feed at the same time each day
2. Be consistent in the mixing rate of the milk
3. Unless you buy a polled breed you will need to disbud the calves and also castrate the bulls