Author Topic: Enzymes in Feed (Read 7422 times)

rustyme · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2009, 08:16:46 pm »

would hemp oil not do the same job as cod liver oil ?

lovespigs · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2009, 10:02:29 pm »

Sometimes ignprance is bliss. You think by keeping a few free range birds and feed them the same as everyone else you are eating the best of eggs/bird - so not the case.

Wellieboots · « **Reply #17 on:** June 22, 2009, 01:50:35 pm »

"I feed Wheat,Rolled barley and cut maize.Twice a week they get cod-liver oil in the feed and all the water contains Cider vinegar.
As soon as the chicks hatch they get Cider Vinegar and that lowers the ph in the gut...no cocci or microplasma can get a hold if the gut is low on the ph scale.
....there are no downsides to this as its a natural way to feed birds".......eh?

I think you might want to step off of your pallet box & consider how exactly cod-liver oil & cider vinegar is a natural supplement for chickens. Given that you are all for them rooting/foraging for their own food, surely leaving them be is your preferred option. Since when did land birds that can't fly go fishing for cod? Oh & cod are benthic feeders therefore are in effect the bin-rakers (in the nicest possible sense!) of the oceans, along with shell-fish & are therefore much more prone to eating contaminated protein as opposed to pelagic fish such as mackeral & herring.

Oh and last time I looked wheat, barley & maize have all been bred to produce maximum crop for minimum coverage, so whilst I think your sentiment is right, your argument is flimsy at best.

rustyme · « **Reply #18 on:** June 22, 2009, 02:44:49 pm »

I will be growing a wheat variety from the 1860's era, 'Square Heads Master'. So although it was ,even then ,a result of selective breeding , it is from a time before the modern short heavy cropping types. I will also be growing spelt wheat, and that goes back to the times when man was just starting to farm !!! At the moment I am only growing a modern type of barley , but I shall try to get an earlier one if I can . I haven't looked into old varieties of barley at all yet , looks like a job for this afternoon/evening!!. I will also be growing a small amount of rye , mainly for the straw , to stuff horse collars with !. This, in the main, is the same type that has been grown for many many years , so I will just be growing a small amount of whatever I can get hold of . The SHM wheat , is mainly for the straw to use as thatch , but all seed will be used first for me, in bread making etc, and then as animal feed . The barley will in the main be just for animal feed and straw for bedding etc. I will also grow some oats for use by me and as an animal feed . Any stock , be it chickens , cattle , sheep , pigs or horses, will be fed this home grown, free from any additives and definitely free from GM ,food. I will also use cider vinegar in water as it does have many good health benefits without pumping my stock full of chemicals, plus it is as natural as you can get in my opinion , fermented fruit juice basically !!. I wouldn't bother with cod liver oil as I hated that crap when I was a kid and wouldn't make anything take it ....but hemp , which I will be growing for the fibre , not the other sort of hemp !!!!! , will provide an oil that is almost exactly as humans require , so I use it now myself and I think it has mostly the same benefits as CLO. I will also be growing mangles , very large beetroots really , for livestock feed along with cabbage , carrots etc and alfalfa/lucerne and comfrey. I will only be getting any animals, as and when I can feed them from my home grown harvest. There will be times when an animal will need a vet and then they will get whatever they need for good health etc. But other than that I will be feeding both my animals and myself with totally organic, chemical and GM free, food . One thing I can't do is stop pollution falling from the sky in the rain . So whatever there may be in the rain will be in my soil , nothing I can do about that , YET !!!!

This whole system is my way of doing things , not everyone would want to do it this way , but if I can ?, I will !!!
I too, can tend to jump up on my pallet box ...( although very rarely )

, although I hope I do it for the right reasons in the main .....

cheers

Russ

shetlandpaul · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2009, 03:16:35 pm »

then i take it your going to be doing the old 4 year rotation. your missing peas and beans and a years fallow. what acreage do you have. we could grow an old type of barley but wheat is out for us were to far north. cabbages are a good idea so are fodder crops but mangles are they not lower in food quality than turnips or swedes. we have some really tough Shetland kale that give greens through out winter the chickens turkeys and geese loved them. i would still check on you vit levels and minerals make sure your not going to be missing anything. we have 25 acres but only a couple that could grow anything. Sounds like your planning total selfsufficency and that great but most just don't have the land or time. the wife is planning to use our Shetland ponies to run a light prow and harrow system. don't you need a licence to grow hemp. ive no idea just wondered.

rustyme · « **Reply #20 on:** June 22, 2009, 04:54:54 pm »

yes it will be a sort of 4 year rotation, with the fallow year growing alfalfa or maybe mustard as a green manure crop. Peas and beans are in the plan it is just hard to mention everything, a prattle on enough as it is.... All veg will be old named varieties and seed will be saved from year to year . The mangles should provide enough feed quality plus they grow huge compared to the others and they also grow better for me than the others. Vitamin and mineral levels should be ok , I have checked all the veg and other crops I am growing for these and the levels would seem to cover all my needs. I only have just under 6 acres, but have access to another 26 to do as I want with , plus in the region of 30 or so wasteland for growing willow and norfolk reed etc. Total self sufficiency wasn't on the cards really ,I did that 30 odd years ago when I moved to Wales . But this time I just got so fed up with companies and the government fiddling with my food , for their own gain all the time , that I have ended up here again lol. I will be growing all my own fruit trees , apples, pears , plums , greengages, even a nectarine maybe? plus some nut trees , all my own veg , even my own rice both plain longrain and basmati , as well as a pudding type later on . I have my own spring , with clean water , plus a river going through the land so that is all ok . I will be growing Norfolk Reed (Phragmites Australis) , fern/saw sedge (cladium Mariscus) , Yellow Flag Iris (Iris pseudacorus ) and Bullrushes (Typha latifolia) as greywater filters and the Norfolk reed and Saw sedge will also be used as thatching material. I am also growing cotton bushes and linseed and hemp for the fibre , to use for string , rope and for cloth and shall be growing a few tea bushes to make my own cuppa. Sheep will provide all the wool I need ( I can get enough wool for free if I want it ) so I will be SS in cloth etc too. I can already spin and weave and I used to work as an industrial hand operated machine knitter , plus my mum was a seamstress and taught me how to sow , I have 4 hand operated sowing machines, plus a spinning wheel, the plans to make a large loom, all I need is the knitting machine now. I also keep bees , so they will provide all the sweetness I need along with wax for candles, polish etc . Hemp did need a licence at one time then they changed it so you just needed to inform your local plod shop you were growing it . Last time I asked in a plod shop they were not in the least interested, and said grow what you want mate !! just NOT the other type..lol. I will be getting mechanical power from the river via a water wheel . This will also provide a small amount of leccy . The willow will supply all the charcoal I need for my forge and small foundry, as well as material for baskets and wood for the fire. Scrap metal will supply all the metal I need for the forge and foundry and local trees will provide all the wood I need to make furniture and waggons etc. I too have horses which I can use to work the land I do also have a huge 4x4 tractor for the big stuff , but that is just if I need it . I also have an old Lister SOM genny . This runs off of any oil you have really . I have used diesel , heating oil , sunflower oil , rapeseed oil , old engine oil and old cooking oil . I will grow my own sunflower to supply oil for cooking and for fuel for the genny. All these things are slowly dropping into place now , so sometime in the next year to year and a half , I will be stepping back in time , all assuming swine flu leaves me be

lol . As for time , well all that is what I will be doing with my time ...should be enough to keep me quiet ...?

cheers

Russ

Castle Farm · « **Reply #21 on:** June 22, 2009, 04:55:06 pm »

Wellyboots

I don't have a pallet, just the good sense to feed my birds a diet that has been tried and tested for many many years.
I have used this feeding method for at last 5 years and have been keeping poultry for almost 50 years.

How long have you had poultry???

Carry on feeding your birds whatever you want, I am not asking you to give up on your pellets or start using Cod-liver oil and Cider vinegar.
I shall let the other members of this forum decide if it's a load of hot air or common sense.

shetlandpaul · « **Reply #22 on:** June 22, 2009, 05:10:08 pm »

whats the costings. i cant grow most of the stuffy you feed. so if i was to buy a good mixed grain with something to replace the maize. what would this cost per 20kg sacks. mixed grain is costing us more than our normal pellets. i agree they do bung in loads of stuff and i limit what i feed them i refuse to use medicated pellets have we all read the warnings on the label. i agree i don't see the need to chuck enzymes in for the sake of better food conversion. i could understand if i was having 100s of thousands but most of us small scale producers don't need to be that hard. what are your birds i can believe that the old utility birds would be happy but the more modern mutated egg layers which i use are more demanding in what they are fed.

does rice not need sub tropical temps to grow. global warming has really kicked in if you can grow it in wales. i wish that we were not so limited in what we can grow but thats the joy of living so far north.

rustyme · « **Reply #23 on:** June 22, 2009, 05:18:54 pm »

I think rice would need tropical conditions if you wanted to grow it all year round . But I am just after getting one crop a year . So far I have only sown small amounts to trial grow it . Each time slugs have had the lot ....The next lot I will be placing salt around the trays...I will only find out if it matures outside then . I have grown it in a greenhouse before though ....but maybe that doesn't count. There are many different types of rice though , grown in many different areas of the world , so I should be able to find one or two that will grow here.

Btrobe · « **Reply #24 on:** June 24, 2009, 11:18:32 am »

Thanks once again. This thread has developed into something I have been dreaming of doing since the 70's but have never been able to. I would love to try to be self sufficient but have never had the chance either because of work or where I lived. I now have a garden of about a fifth of an acre so I have 24 hens and grow vegetables in the back garden. I have fruit trees and fruit bushes and have recently planted some more trees(cherries and pears). I'm also going to look into keeping bees. I will take on board the planting of comfrey to give the hens their greens - thanks for that. The thought of having 6 acres and doing what Russ is doing sounds wonderful. The trouble is I work away quite a bit ( I have a hen partner who shares the hens and looks after them when I'm away) but I have to pay the mortgage. I've often felt like packing the work in and starting a small holding but have never had the courage. I don't have enough experience etc. I don't think that anyone is standing on on a pallet box thinking they are great. It just sounds to me like they are trying to do the best for their animals and family and I welcome their advice - keep it coming. You are living my dream.
Brenda

shetlandpaul · « **Reply #25 on:** June 24, 2009, 02:11:52 pm »

i would keep the job there is no real money in smallholding.

rustyme · « **Reply #26 on:** June 24, 2009, 03:45:46 pm »

all depends what you want out of life really Paul ?,
I only want a minimal amount of 'STUFF' so I therefore live on very little money. This would be very hard for the average person to get used to , as there is never any money for anything !!! but I get by . When I say the average person , I don't mean that I am better than that ...just that I am used to having far less things than most, and that I am prepared to do without many things in order to live an almost money free way of life, ALMOST !!!! Not saying that my way is right or that anybody else's is wrong , just that I like my life and the simplicity of it , and I don't need to earn £3-4-5-hundred a week to live it !!

cheers

Russ

shetlandpaul · « **Reply #27 on:** June 24, 2009, 07:06:44 pm »

true. but unless your going big scale on something your going to make a loss. pigs are out, cows and sheep are heading the same way. the only thing thats made us money was turkeys and that was close. you still need a good income stream to pay the government,feed yourself and family maintain the home and cover all the expenses of having animals. not forgeting the insurance and transport. just can't see anyone earning a good living off less than a few hundred acres. could be that I'm just pessimistic but being self sufficient would make a big difference.