Author Topic: Tupping ewe lambs (Read 11016 times)

kanisha · « **Reply #15 on:** July 15, 2012, 01:10:29 pm »

my point being....... that the "natural" state to breed from ewe lambs is anything but, in the model as it exists in lowland pasture farming.

woollyval · « **Reply #16 on:** July 15, 2012, 02:09:55 pm »

Getting a bit technical for me!!! I just keep my ouessants as low key as possible in that they are not on lush new leys and are kept extensively. I only feed hard feed, and of that very little, for 6 weeks prior to lambing and the rams get nothing at all. They all get hay/haylage offered from November/December - April. I find that some lambs take and some don't, none have lambing problems, in fact since I started keeping this breed in 2006 I have had no lambing problems at all and have only ever helped one ewe who needed an extra tug (she is old!) I have kept sheep for many many years and one thing I have seen is hogs that get too fat and then have problems getting in lamb and lambing problems thereafter! My personal opinion is that ewes who continually have problems should not be kept for breeding and the fashion for sheep such as texel and beltex who nowdays often have horrendous lambing problems due to desirable (

) traits is rather unpleasant!

Give me an easy lambing, easy to keep primitive any day......saying that I have just bought a couple of Ryelands....never had these before!!!

colliewoman · « **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2012, 11:49:59 pm »

I bred my ewe lambs and I would do so again. Keeping primitives on lush Somerset grass it is tricky stopping them running to fat so I put mine to the tup. They are all as big as the ewes they came from and their lambs are cracking. Yes I did have a tricky labour and a resulting weakly lamb and not much milk with one, but i think the fact she came through and a week after was feeding her lamb 100% was a credit to her not a fault.
She is the only ewe of my own that I have ever had to help, and it was my fault for feeding them.
I go with the view 'if they are big enough, they are old enough' and so far it has worked out for me

I only ever use a primitive tup though, no way would I put a ewe lamb to a bigger one.

SteveHants · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2012, 04:22:09 pm »

I don't think there is anything wrong with putting a ewe lamb to the tup as long as she has attained a suitable size (relative to breed, obviously

). If she has started menstruating, she is mature enough to take the ram.

Re: '12 year old girl' comment - the two are not the same. I think the word I am looking for is 'anthropomorphism' which is something to be avoided as it clouds judgement, which should be based on the species of animal concerned and not Homo sapiens.

kanisha · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2012, 06:19:41 pm »

Steve wrote
"Re: '12 year old girl' comment - the two are not the same. I think the word I am looking for is 'anthropomorphism' which is something to be avoided as it clouds judgement, which should be based on the species of animal concerned and not Homo sapiens."

wow now that is a far more controversial statement to me.
recognising not just the physical but emotional demands and attainment of maturity could apply equally across the species and last time I checked homo sapiens was included as a species and not some divine creation.

SteveHants · « **Reply #20 on:** July 16, 2012, 06:41:58 pm »

What I meant was: one needs to look at the biological needs of whatever species of animal it is that you are managing and not try and draw parallels with human society or indeed our biological needs.

And whether or not there are parallels (sheep and humans are both mamalian, so there are likely to be some), I find it is best to disregard them and think solely in terms of the animal you are managing.

This is possibly easier for me as I spent many years farming fish where similarities with humans are few, to say the least.

Blacksheep · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:54:19 pm »

When we started with sheep, Zwartbles, our vet recommended we bred the ewe lambs, as long as they have grown on well they are mature enough to do so, and if they are not ready they tend not to take.
If you do breed from your ewe lambs ideally they should be kept as a seperate group to older ewes in the flock, they cannot keep at the trough with older ewes and will not be getting the quantity of feed you think they are getting if they are in with older ewes and you risk problems such as twin lamb etc if you do not keep the ewe lambs seperate/ensure they have adequate food intake in the run up to lambing. You also need to ensure that you don't overfeed them and they cannot have the same intake as an older ewe, this is something to do with the fact that they themselves are still growing as well as needing to divert nutrients to the growing embryos and they can get metabolic problems.
We have had very few lambing problems with ewe lambs, in general they lamb extremely easily and more quickly than older ewes. Ours have been good mums although can be too overprotective and keep the lambs under their nose rather than let them drink until they learn about lambs needing the milk bar.
We lamb ours after the main group, aiming for early April so that the ewes have good grass available whilst they are lactating. You do need to bear in mind that a ewe hogg/shearling will only produce 60% volume of milk as an older ewe would too, so certainly if she has twins they may need more supplementary feeding than lambs born to older ewes.
I think if you are prepared to take the additional care with them and their lambs, then as long as they are well enough grown and an appropriate breed there is not any reason not to breed from them. Our vet said that they would then be in better breeding condition for future years. However if we wanted to grow a lamb on for showing as a shearling we certainly wouldn't breed from her in her lamb year.