[suziequeue]

Yes - I agree with this. I find worming very confusing and am going to start doing more testing - especially the mucky bum ones.


You can get testing kits from Supplies for Smallholders I see.

[JMB]

Well, she still looks Ok and I haven't re-wormed her yet.
I'm a bit reluctant to worm her if she doesn't need it (although some people say 'just do it before she gets worse' and others say 'leave alone').
 
This is our first year lambing and we are still learning.
So I suppose my question would now be about timing.
Once a lamb presents with a runny bum- do I have time to go through the worm/faeces test? We worm tested our pigs with the supplies for smallholder kits, so I assume I can use the same, but it takes a few days.
If the lamb does have worms, will she have gone right downhill by then? (Bearing in mind I'll have to order one and send it back)
Thanks, Joanne xxx
 

[jaykay]

I expect to be shot down in flames, but since Nematodirus can kill quickly, I worm lambs with mucky bums whether or not I've done a FEC. I might well follow up with one, so that I knew what was going on, for future reference. But I treat first.

I have some friends who run an organic farm. As far as I can see this consists of having to go through endless ineffectual remedies, then FEC, before they're finally allowed to use an effective wormer by which time the animal has lost serious condition or died.

For this, and other similar scenarios, I would never go organic for animal welfare reasons.

[shep53]

Some vets do their own egg counts ,so you can get the results quickly.   I have had 10 days rain and temps up to 22 so the grass has gone crazy and some lambs are scouring , same colour as grass , but look bouncy and happy

[katyd1991]

hello,
After you worm your sheep do you leave them stand on the yard for a few hours so that they can poo all the worms out and they wont go back into the land.
this is what we've found has worked for us, as our sheep are now becoming immune to worm drenches.

[Small Farmer]

I've seen it suggested that one should follow the stock on the land with chickens something like ten days later. Theory is that the chickens will eat the worms when they hatch but I don't know if it works in practice.  Might need a lot of chickens. 

[JMB]

Hello.
No, we don't put them on hardstanding after we've wormed them.
Maybe we ought to from now on.
I've read that the recommended method was to put them on clean pasture after, but then recently the thinking was to leave them where they were for a bit (something to do with resistance).
Like the chicken idea though. We have 5 hens but any excuse to get more! I've heard the duck theory too, although jury is out on that.
Anyway, lamb still bouncy today so fingers crossed.
Thanks again for your replies.
Joanne xxxx

[Foobar]

I would worm again before doing the FEC if it was April-June, Nematodirus can kill before it shows up in egg counts. I would read the monthly Nadis parasite forecast for my area and follow any advice that they give. And in my area this year it was two doses 7-10 days apart. You always need to remember that larvae hatches are weather dependent. What works one year will not necessarily work the next.
I don't want to over worm my sheep but also I don't want them to be poor doers because of a high worm burden. And most importantly I don't want to encourage fly strike.

[SallyintNorth]

Nematodirus can kill before it shows up in egg counts.

Our vet is not impressed with FECs for this very reason.

I would read the monthly Nadis parasite forecast for my area and follow any advice that they give. And in my area this year it was two doses 7-10 days apart. You always need to remember that larvae hatches are weather dependent. What works one year will not necessarily work the next.
I don't want to over worm my sheep but also I don't want them to be poor doers because of a high worm burden. And most importantly I don't want to encourage fly strike.

Top advice   

And yes, the current thinking, to reduce resistance, is to put wormed sheep back on the 'dirty' ground for a few days before moving them onto clean.  But much more importantly than this, according to our vet, is to not worm the best (most healthy) 10% sheep.  They are handling their worm burden and by leaving them unwormed you are helping their immune systems as well as not encouraging resistance in the worms they are carrying - plus, most importantly, leaving some non-resistant worms alive to dilute the resistant worms in your pasture.

Our vet says to only ever worm adult ewes just before lambing, and not at all if they are not lambing.  The adults should generally be able to manage the worms they pick up, but there is an explosion of worms from the newly lambed ewe, so it is advisable to worm lambing ewes at that time.

Of course you would always worm an individual animal showing symptoms of failing to handle a worm burden - but try giving a mineral drench at the same time.

I now have a veterinary explanation for my oft-repeated advice to give good quality (ie, chelated) mineral drenches to lambs.  The minerals actively support the sheep's immune system, thereby helping the sheep handle the worm burden and reducing the need to give a wormer, which in turn helps prevent the worms developing resistance to the wormer.

[Small Farmer]

We just had a Defra funded session on worming from our vet who has said exactly the same to us as Sally says below.   Perhaps it was the same presentation?

[Haylo-peapod]

I now have a veterinary explanation for my oft-repeated advice to give good quality (ie, chelated) mineral drenches to lambs.  The minerals actively support the sheep's immune system, thereby helping the sheep handle the worm burden and reducing the need to give a wormer, which in turn helps prevent the worms developing resistance to the wormer.

Are chelated mineral drenches safe for all breeds and all parts of the country or do you need to know about the mineral status in your local area before using them? Are mineral licks not enough?

[SallyintNorth]

Are chelated mineral drenches safe for all breeds and all parts of the country or do you need to know about the mineral status in your local area before using them? Are mineral licks not enough?

If you buy minerals, whether licks or drenches, in your local suppliers, then hopefully they are appropriate to your part of the country.  But by all means check.  And yes, some breeds cannot tolerate supplementary copper, so for them get a drench or lick with no added copper.

Up here in the far north west of England, our ground is short of Copper, Cobalt and Selenium and we often need supplementary zinc and iodine too.  And other supplementation depending on the season and lifecycle - eg, high-magnesium licks mid-late gestation.

The thing about licks is, only some sheep will use them and it is not always those that need them, no - the manufacturers make them sugary and appealing, so it's usually the greediest sheep that go for them and may hog them all day, getting molassed lipstick all over their greedy little faces... 

Loose minerals as a powder are more likely to be used only by those sheep in need - but are much more awkward to use, needing topped up each day and protected from the weather as the rain will spoil them.

Mineral drenches give a lift but it's short-lived as the minerals decay in / are excreted from the body.  The drenches in which the key elements are chelated are supposed to maintain elevated blood levels of those minerals for 6-8 weeks.

There are also boluses and injections for some minerals; some sheep need copper during pregnancy to lay down the skeleton of the foetuses, and this is often given as a bolus or jag.  But chelated copper will work just as well.

[Haylo-peapod]

Thanks Sally, that's really useful to know.