[RUSTYME]

Nope , never heard of that one .
Heard of optimistic though ! (the view that the existing state of things is the best possible .) thank f*ck i am not optimistic .

[Simple Simon]

you intrigue me simple Simon a one time banker or involved with the banking industry now turned to the soil but you keep up to date with the relevant movers and shakers

Its force of habit, Robert. You can't do a demanding job for 40 years and then just stop.  I can't unknow all the people I know, and I still get invited to things.  Breakfast on Thursday with the head of one of the larger Spanish banks will be particularly interesting!

[robert waddell]

you see that is just what i mean   i bet none of the former staff of the banks would get an invitation for scrambled eggs   maybe they are looking for a sub

[deepinthewoods]

ok,
 the chip on the shoulder thing really got to me. i have spent some time deep in thought and i admit that i do sound like i have.
i want to make it clear that i have nothing against the 'haves' they pay my wages and i respect their achievements. i realise that  my posts didnt come across that way.
ive also realised that its my choices that have put me in the situation im in. if it wasnt for my choice to step up and care for my daughter, or leave my ex, i could have probably got to a stage where i could have bought a house, i would have done it up, sold it, and worked my way up too.
ive also recognized that the goalposts have changed, it takes a couple working to afford a mortgage nowadays, not a single dad,
 that ive swallowed.
im happy with my swap of getting richer for bringing up my girl and i think this thread has helped me realise that. 
sorry if ive offended anyone, but there are people out there who are trying and working hard but know its never going to happen for them please bear them in mind, theres lots of us. 

[plumseverywhere]

Dave, I don't think you've offended anyone. If anything, you have just given us all food for thought and broadened our scope for thought (mine anyway).
Be proud of who you are, your choices and what you are achieving - being a fantastic Dad is no mean feat 

[RUSTYME]

It is me who is meant to have the king edwards on me shoulder Dave , not you ! My reply to that was directed at the ian duncan smith followers that blame everything on to the millions of unemployed , not at you . You are savvy enough to know there are good and bad in all walks of life , and on the whole give and take far better than i do . Nothing i said was directed at you mate !

[Berkshire Boy]

I can't see anything on this post that could have offended anyone. Surely it is a discussion with a group of people with different opinions what is offensive there. We all come from different backgrounds with different jobs and different hands dealt. People like DITW and Rustyme I have a lot of admiration for, you can tell a lot about someone from how they deal with bad situations, get off their arse and deal with it or wallow in self pity and blame everyone else. We will never all agree with each other on everything but if we did what a boring world it would be.
I was explaining to my eldest son who is training to be an accountant and a little up himself that everyone is important whatever they do for a job we all need each other to make it work. My Grandad always used to say if you work for a living you are working class whatever you do and I am a great believer i that.
Yes Rusty my spell check didn't pick that up didn't try hard enough at school.

[Simple Simon]

I am fundamentally an optimist.  There will be an economic recovery, but not yet.  There's too many things yet to be fixed, and most of the solutions are uncomfortable for voters.  Voters elect governments, so governments tend to be short term thinkers.  But the biggest issue is the Euro where I can only see the turkeys continuing to vote for Christmas.


In the UK the problem is still the banks.  Government doesn't understand banking (well Cable may, but Osborne certainly doesn't) so the management of the situation via the Bank of England, the FSA and HMG as shareholder continues to be inept.  The banks' own management teams remain amoral but the hand-in-the-till problem is less of an issue.


What they won't talk about is the consequences of a 20 year boom in asset prices.  HMG liked it because it made the economy look rosy and householders all liked it because they felt wealthier.  My late mother bought a flat for £100k in 1998 and it was sold for £240k in 2007.  That increase in value did nothing for her but increased the cost to the next owner. Commercial property prices did the same, and the banks are now reaping the consequences as prices fall back towards value.  This hasn't happened to residential property which overall remains unaffordable for normal people.   That my property has an inflated value doesn't help my children get their own places - one of them is moving back aged 23


When that happens it will be painful for owners (remember negative equity from the 1990s) and for the banks whose lax lending encouraged people to borrow too much so they could profit from an ever-increasing tax-free ride. 


The recovery will only come when people actually see it and stop being scared.

[NormandyMary]

I speak for the thousands of bank workers who strive everyday to earn enough to keep them out of poverty. Believe me, the person who cashes your cheque in your local branch (if it's still got a counter of course) is earning a pittance. The person who agrees your car loan will also be on lowish wages. They will only be able to earn any sort of bonus if they meet and exceed their quarterly targets which are decided by the number or credit cards and loans WITH PPI you sell and by what the financial planning managers or mortgage advisors can sell to your referrals. These targets are increased to an impossible level each year, regardless of the economic climate. Their names will probably be on a huge board in the back office, with their daily sales denoted on it, and those at the bottom of the board are shamed.
I know of several directives that came down from "on high" that declared that personal loans would only be agreed if they were protected, with no exceptions. I was so uncomfortable with this and other rules, it made me ill. I know of several others, mainly lower level managers who have also suffered in a similar way, some actually having breakdowns. Its not a very nice industry to be in anymore.

[Rosemary]

My nephew's wife works for RBS - has done since she left school, so 20 years or so and she hates it. She says that when she started, it was a service industry; now it's all sales and pressure to sell.

[Simple Simon]

When I started in banking in 1972 at a branch of the then Midland Bank the effects of the Barber boom driven by the Competition and Credit Control Act 1971 were starting.  Prior to this the banks didn't compete on price, on products or on anything.  Credit restrictions limited their lending, so they didn't offer domestic mortgages.  Building societies (owned by their members) were very conservative and required evidence of the ability to save for long periods before a loan (at best four times the man's wage) was granted.


The result of the previous era was that a whole generation of Capt. Mainwarings had achieved seniority without ever having to make credit decisions.  Opening the floodgates of credit in 1971 led to the crash of 1973/4 as the banks lent too much to the wrong people to do stupid things.  Does this sound familiar?


I was taught that a loan had to be for a defined purpose, over a defined period and repaid from an identifiable source.  Realising security was pawnbroking not banking.  It was felt that customers has to be saved from themselves.


Rosemary, your relative is right.  RBS' branches in Scotland were renewed for their customer service, particularly compared with the old Williams and Glyn's branches in England.  Sadly the conversion of bank staff into double glazing salesmen has been all too successful.

[MAK]

My Dad's family lost their cash in a bank in the late 1930s and he dealt with cash for years until he sold a house and could not get cash for it. He then had to open a bank account and made good use of them therafter. If it was not for their lending I am sure things would not have turned out as they did for him. I would say if anyone has any cash then in recent times a lot can be made on gold ( not the heavy worked jewellery stuff that will cost in the workmanship) just a simple chunk.
I've done so much digging this weekend but did not find any!

[Hermit]

I agree Simple Simon, any Tom Dick and Harry can get a loan now and find any excuse not to pay it back. Bring back the old days of having to prove yourself to get a mortgage or a loan. This society of buy now pay later has ruined this country and why should they blame themselves when there are 'fat cat' bankers to blame!
 We were sat in town yesterday when my daughter remarked on a girl whom she knew was on benefits shoving a fish and chip supper in her mouth(.£ 7.00 odd up here) My OH remarked "oh she will be alright , I am paying for her chip supper and her heart attack too!" benefits to me should be paid in tokens just like rationing in the war.....kids clothes, toiletries, food etc . generally the basics . might give folk an incentive to work to buy their fags and booze. Child benefit should definately be paid in tokens.
ps I know there are folk on benefits that are really trying and dont want to be on benefits and good luck to them ,on further education or searching for a way out of their situation , they are the doers as much as someone working, full respect to them. It is the cants or wonts that need sorting out.

[SteveHants]

I was on JSA etc for a few months last year.


IMO social security and a health service represent an accomplishment of civilisation, not the opposite as some have suggested.


JSA is hardly enough to live on, and anybody who thinks otherwise is living in a dreamworld.


The ammount fraudulently claimed pales in insignificance when it is compared to tax avoided, and yet we dont see 'we are watching you' govt campaigns aimed at corprorate tax avoidance.


Its sole purpose is to get the have-nots squabbling amongst themselves - 'divide and conquer'.