[RUSTYME]

Yes Sandy , as you say it is a balance and the need for kids to fit in these days is paramount , for a large % of adults too.
 I never had or felt such a need ( no surprise there then ! ) .
 I always stood alone , but played the game to a point . Those days are well gone .
 Some smallholders will make it through , i can think of a few on here .
But the system that many rely on , will crush them.
 We all have different levels of system dependence , consumerism , bills etc and thus different amounts of 'money' needed . The needs of partners have to be thought about too . Being single helps on that score.
 The less you want , the less you need.
 Not something that most  practice these days , but  as everyday passes more and more will have to . Those that don't are doomed ,  as Fraser off dads army would say !
Summer on it's way now mate , more b+b customers will make life easier . I do realise that not everyone can , or   would want to , live as i do  ( yet ! lol ) .

[Sandy]

Morning,  my post read a little wrong, I meant that its getting more costly to live for us all and to keep a smallholding in particular as all expenses are going up..I was shocked to see how much my car insurance has gone up and as for petrol?  I do not use too much but it certainly is a factor in how much people travel, then fuel bills have rocketed, we keep the heating off when we are here on our own but it can get very cold.  The B&B buisness has always done well, we are full now and for a while and since we opened, only had a few empty weeks in the winter, mainly due to the weather, we will not get rich from it as the money goes back but its the same as a good income from a job for me, its my hubby  as he does not have a regular income, he works for an agency and now just finnished another contract, if we had his imcome too we would be sorted...One thing that P's me off, as I get older I have less and less money, at least prescriptions are free here ( loads of medication!!) and soon free bus travel for me so some saving there. My middle daughter is emigrating soon, her hubby is hanging onto his job just, the prospects in UK are not good at all....and they moved my pension age!!!! 

[RUSTYME]

It will be the same for anyone with a big mortgage and no wage , a position which many are going to be in soon , smallholder or not !
Moving the pension age is one step , the next will be removing it altogether , and there are rumours of this happening !
The ' universal credit ' is the next step . Mmmm credit ? .
  The modern use of the word credit = debt ! Credit card = debt card , buying a car on credit means creating a debt . Universal credit = universal debt !
 Another step toward complete control or slavery.
 Greece will close it's banks without warning , to prevent a run on them , that will cause sthtf and spain will go the same way as greece , italy will then follow and the euro will die ! That may be when they get rid of cash completely .
The whole population will then be under total control .
The above assumes we get through the olympics without a 7/7 style false flag 'terror' attack ?

[Sandy]

I hate credit cards of any sort, the store cards are sooo bad, to me I can see a smirky business man trying to entice people into owing lots of money just to buy more crap!!!!! (I have loads of real crap by the way)  I often notice how many things people have to update these days, all the tech stuff for a start, we have pre owned TV's currently a 52" rear projection in one room and a 42" in another, great sound and we did replace one bulb for £50 . Not sure that people cannot see that we are brainwashed into buying the latest of everything, it becomes hard to buy what you actualy want!!!! How will the worlds debt be sorted???

If you won on a lottery would you remain self sufficiant Russ? I guess it would be easier to set yourself up and buy the land.....

Bankers the lot of them!!!

[RUSTYME]

I have never done the lottery once since it began Sandy , so not likely to win it anytime soon . But if i did somehow get the money , i would buy land yes , but again not likely as i don't 'do' money !
My way of life IS my way of life and self reliance IS the fundamental backbone/basis of it , there is no alternative for me , as the only other choice is the system . A system that i have fought against , one way or another , all my life .
The accident put everything on hold for 15+ years.

[Sandy]

  Very well said...life is too short to waste ......

[Plantoid]

Am right with you (as recent posts re LPG and insurance may have indicated!!)!  Good luck - maybe we should start a 'economy drive' tip sheet! No sky for us anyway, but freesat is fine.  I'm on verge of knocking broadband on the head - BT have now said (after a year) that they cant do any more for us and 0.5 Mb is it!!!  Library is 4 miles away, but it could be done!  Anyway good luck again - let us know if you stumble accross any shocking savings!!

There is a book some times second hadn on the likes of Amazon. " Swimming with the Pirahana makes you hungry " or similar title.
 the book is filed with commonsense way fo reducing your outgooings and debt reduction but these are frequently over looked common sense ones .

 I was give the book 15 yrs or so ago by a good friend who purchased it for us as a way to try and help us find our feet. It helped us no end as we were starting to try tocome to terms with me being 75% disabled and worried sick as to how we cold survive . We worried so much it actually stopped us thinking straight .

 I gave the boo away to someone else in similar circumstances and they say it also helped them out .

[Plantoid]

No bills , no gadgets , virtually no costs , £5 a month for the mobile , as soon as the veg plot starts producing again , no food costs . Just milk , sugar , coffee and tea to sort out now .
Milk =get a cow
sugar= get some sugar beet seeds (anyone got any to spare ?)
tea= get a camellia sinensis
coffee= err go without or carry on buying it .

sugar ..get bees or do without and save your teeth  or use sterilized apple juice .
 
Coffee roast broken up acorns then crush them ..makes ersatzr coffee that the germans used in WW2 or you can make a chickory coffee from the roasted roots with caramised sugar for further colouring & slight taste aka gravy browning ( a bottle of which last years & years ). .. I think there is still some sold under the name of " camp coffee " .
I used to like it but it is rather bitter.

[RUSTYME]

Cheers P , had bees but they buggered off . You do get the double bonus of honey and wax for candles etc , but you also have the cost of pest and desease treatment , swings and roundabouts .
The stevia plant and sugar beet are both easy to grow . Sugar beet is very easy to produce sugar from , and the waste is animal feed !
The coffee alternatives i have tried and would rather go back to drinking tea , they were kack ! lol.
Dandilion root , acorn , chicory , yuk yuk yuk and camp coffee , oh god , the smell of that stuff would make me chuck up .
No i would be happy with just tea , grew up on that so no probs there .

Yes L , the money chase is all consuming . Whether it be for survival within the system for the poor , or , the insatiable greed of the rich .
The 30's will be nothing compared to what is around the corner , if 'they' don't initiate their get out of jail card , WW3 !
 Although i have no money , i have no bills or debts and my land is mine . It is hard getting to where i am , but it is so much better than the alternative , the money chase = the system .
Good luck with your new way of living .

[Plantoid]

Rusty can you obtain stevia seeds /plants here in the UK , do they grow ?

 I brought a bottle of Stevia extract liquid whilst I was in Canada ,as it was compact and easy to carry with me .
Gosh what an awful after taste like asprin and saccharin ( sp )  I went without sugar for nearly three months because it was so lousy.

[RUSTYME]

Yes P , you can get them from , www.nickys-nursery.co.uk  , £2.95 for 40 seeds .
They  grow ok in the uk
, i sowed some last year but due to circumstances lost those that came through .   
If you don't like the taste of stevia , then you could grow a few sugar beet . About 18% by weight , is sugar . They grow as easy as beetroot and all you do to get the sugar is chop them up and boil them , remove the beet and reduce the liquid till it thick and syrupy . Cool it and you have brown sugar. You can treat it further by adding something , i forget what , and you end up with refined white sugar and blackjack molasses . I only made brown sugar and it was very easy to do .
I got given a trailer load that i made into sugar . The ones i grew from seed got eaten by cows lol .
Got to get more seeds of both this year . Till then i will have to keep buying silver spoon sugar , made from sugar beet !

[Sylvia]

Haven't read this thread since I offered you some Stevia seeds Russ. Pm me your address also you Plantoid and I will send you a few seeds.
Dandelion coffee is o.k. if made with hot milk but acorn coffee is horrible whichever way you make it.