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Author Topic: Bee Keeping  (Read 5053 times)

xxmillyxx

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • East Yorkshire
Bee Keeping
« on: February 03, 2009, 04:42:24 pm »
Hi all
Are there any bee keepers out there ?  I have just ordered my first bee hive from Cornwall.  Should be with me in the next few weeks and the bee's in April.  Soooo looking forward to getting them but I am a pure novice.  Any advice on which bee's would be the best for a first timer would be great.  I have already sent for a couple of books on the subject and the lady who sold use the farm has told me to ring her for any advice as she used to keep them (but she is 86 now and dont want to bother her too much.  So any advice would be warmly welcomed.

Helen

  • Joined Feb 2009
Re: Bee Keeping
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2009, 08:24:23 pm »
Hi, I share your interest in beekeeping but have not got as far as you yet.  I read that it was best to do a beekeeping course via the local beekeepers association first as they would also offer support through the first year if required.  Unfortunately the course is fully booked already and they only run one a year!   So I'm back to looking at books as a first step, there are so many available on the subject!

I'd love to hear how you get on with your bees.  What style of hive did you buy?  I have found an interesting web forum on natural beekeeping www.biobees.com

rustyme

  • Guest
Re: Bee Keeping
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2009, 08:45:26 pm »
hello,
      I missed this post and only just this minute found it. I have had my bees for a few years now , but haven't done too much with them , been busy with other things so had to leave the  bees to do their own thing. I was given my first hive and bees as payment for letting a chap keep some bees on my land for a couple of years. He gave me a hive and a very small nucleus of bees , which have now grown into a nice colony . Then I was lucky enough to get, off freecycle, 4 complete hives and loads of spare parts ie extra supers , frames, top boards ,a suit a couple of smokers and blimey loads of other stuff. The hives needed cleaning and some repair so kept them in the yard by me , well a swarm moved into one of them last year, and have now settled in well , pics and videos are on here somewhere. I don't know much about beekeeping so just read up or look online ,when I need to know things. I hope this year to at least get a crop from them and maybe increase the number of colonies to 4 , fingers crossed. They truly are fascinating things to watch and the few jars of honey I have had so far taste absolutely fantastic. I also made a few candles from the wax and have loads of wax which I use to rust protect my tools and I made some polish with it too. I can only say they are well worth getting just be sure nobody in your family (or neighbours ?) are alergic to their stings. I have been stung and I am lucky that they don't do anything to me at all. The taste of the honey is well worth the cost of the odd sting here or there.

cheers

Russ

xxmillyxx

  • Joined Jan 2009
  • East Yorkshire
Re: Bee Keeping
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2009, 05:38:26 am »
Thanks for the replies - I cant wait to get the bee's (will get in April).  I have been reading up on books for the last 6 months (LOL) and got a DVD from the Beekeepers Association so this is all making me feel better about it and I cant wait to get started.  OH has been speaking to someone who has kept bee's in his younger years and is going to come and help me get to know the basic (starting with a siting visit).

As to the bee sting thing - my daughter (who's 23) has never been stung, in fact she has never had any childhood diseases except a cold, so I slightly worry.  I have suggested to her that we hold her down at first and sting her (and I would so want to hold the bee at times) to make sure she is ok with it.  Her OH is all for this, she is a little (to say the least) resistant to the idea.   ::) ::)

Even when I explained that it has medicinal qualities she still looked at me with a funny look on her face.

rustyme

  • Guest
Re: Bee Keeping
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2009, 11:46:50 am »
lol.. I can just picture the look of fear mixed with disbelief and a questioning "what are you on mum ?" :o ???. I can't say I like getting stung !! but it isn't THAT bad really   ::) ;) They say the first dozen are the worst !!!!  ;D  I make sure that my suit is on properly and that the gloves are on and there are no holes anywhere that a bee can fit through ...( it is a bit disconcerting ,when you are working away with your bees and you notice that first one, then two, then three , bees are INSIDE your veil  :o :o :o ;D. All should be ok though, remind her a bee can only sting ONCE.  One thing I always try to remember with my bees is , if I am not sure what to do with them ....do nothing !!! they get by quite well without us doing anything.

cheers

Russ

sunnyjohn

  • Joined Jul 2008
  • Milton Keynes
Re: Bee Keeping
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2009, 10:29:59 pm »
Hi, Milly. Like Russ, I've only just come across your post because I haven't been able to get online for a couple of weeks. So much for modern technology. I've been technically keeping bees since about 1980, though, due to change of address and circumstances, I haven't had any for a couple of years, now. Last year I set up an apiary in hope, but the bees I was promised didn't materialise after the bee farmer lost a lot of his colonies in a disastrous winter. So I left my hives out in hope, but there were no swarms around.... Never mind.

I recomend the book Guide to Bees and Honey by Ted Hooper; ISBN 0 7137 1382 8. I'm not sure if it's still in print, but there should still be copies about. It's very readable, very accessible, and has some excellent photographs, as well as explaining practically everything you'll need to know. There are other books, and specialist books covering things like showing honey (at Country Shows, etc), making things with beeswax (like candles, ointments, polishes, etc), special presentation of honey such as honey-in-the-comb, etc. But these are for later. First of all you want to know how to start, what to do and what not to do, and what to look for and expect.

I attended a course run through the local adult learning college, with a magical old chap called Bernard. He was full of all the patter you'd expect from a seasoned beekeeper who learned from his father and grandfather, but he was also very practical. Among the many senisble things he taught was that, although bees don't have ears, they do respond to sound and vibration. So while they can't actually make any sense of it if you talk to them, the mere fact that you do makes YOU calmer, and that makes it a less fraught process. Do everything slowly and sensitively. If you rush and bash the hive about as you work with them, the bees quickly become alarmed, and then they are more likely to react by stinging 'to save their nest'. But if you work with them calmly and carefully, they will just carry on around you and not get fractious. That way they won't frighten you, so YOU'LL stay calm. Think of it like a vicious circle, or hopefully NOT a vicious one!

There are few more magical experiences than watching (and hearing the buzz) as a swarm leaves the nest, circling at first like a slow-moving tornado full of ash-particles, about 15 feet across and 10 feet high, before communicating their intended direction, ensuring the queen is among them, and setting off. After leaving, they often settle on an intermediate place while 'scout bees' look for a permanent home. Sometimes they'll go straight to a permanent place if they've already found one. But if they cluster (as a 'swarm') in a tree or suchlike, they are free for the taking for a beekeeper; first come, forst served. And as a colony has to be strong and successful to have the right conditions to swarm, they are likely to be an asset if you can capture them. Just knocking the swarm into a cardboard box is all you need to do, and place them at the entrance to an empty hive. The books describe dropping them as a mass onto a board (white or pale seems better), sloping up to the entrance to the hive. In seconds, they start 'running in', with bees fanning a chemical scent that says 'This way, folks' to the others, and bees scrambling over each other to get into the hive and start a new nest. That's another magical experience.

Because we can't guarantee where a swarm will go, we usually leave an epmty hive nearby 'just in case'. I've received about a dozen swarms over the years, that took up residence without my help. But also, we try to stop them flying away from our hives, either by removing queen cells when they're created; that sets back the queen-rearing process, so they can't fly when they planned; or by creating an 'artificial swarm'. This is explained in the books. Its harnessing nature by taking a 'ripe' queen cell and some frames of brood, and scooping some bees (as the books explain) into another hive. If it sounds complicated, believe me it isn't. The OLD queen and bees are then moved, leaving the new queen yet to emerge in the old place. The bees quickly behave as if they have swarmed naturally, and you have two colonies instead of one.

An artificial swarm can be nearby the original spot, but otherwise bees should be moved less than a metre or more than 3 miles. Or so the books say. The theory is that they will readily fly up to 1.5 miles to find food, and if they fly over an area they know, they might be confused and go back to where they lived before. To avoid that, move them far enough for the new territory and old not to overlap; that's 3 miles. Except they'll fly more than 2 miles to get to oil-seed rape (and a few other nectar-rich crops), so the reasoning is flawed. But 3 miles does seem to be enough.

Oil-seed rape is a bountiful crop, but take off the honey early, while it's liquid. Like heather and a few other crops, the honey is prone to set solid quickly in the comb, making it hard to extract. And runny honey is the same as set honey, but sugar crystals in the honey have replicated and turn it into a crystalline solid. You can make honey set by putting it in the fridge, or make set honey runny by putting it in an airing cupboard. If you need runny honey in a hurry, you CAN use a microwave, but only on very low power. On higher power, it cooks the honey and it can taste awful!

I don't know what equipment you have or need. It's worth looking on e-bay and in local ads, because retail prices from the few major suppliers are expensive. You may also find a local supplier who either ships in bulk or even makes equipment. It's worth a Yellow Pages or Google search, as it can save loads of money, that you could better use to buy more hives or bees! I use one in Warwickshire, near Moreton Morrell; don't know if I may advertise, but that's enough for a search, if anyone's local enough to use him! BTW, he's no relative and I have no business relationship either; I just believe in supporting the local artisan.

You should also join the local BeeKeepers' Association. Besides advice and mentors, it can give access to equipment on loan, local warnings and support, and third-party insurance. That is vital. You may be allowed to keep bees on an allotment. I can, and I know of some others. It's perfectly legal, in the allotments legislation, but the local landlords hold the veto, so ask.

All the best, and I hope you enjoy many hours of the absorbing 'hobby'. At the very least it can be 'self financing', and it can make a good profit. But don't under-sell your work and effort, or your investment and time. Local honey is not cheap. Don't be afraid to ask the going rate. If you sell it too cheaply, you lower the value for everyone, and then it becomes uneconomic.

If you have any questions, please ask. Maybe, of there's enough interest and 'traffic', we could open a beekeepers' corner, and maybe call it 'The Apiary?'

John :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee:


sandy

  • Guest
Re: Bee Keeping
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2009, 10:37:08 pm »
We both would love to keep bees but am a bit unsure!!! we are in a built up area will bees be a problem to neighbours

rustyme

  • Guest
Re: Bee Keeping
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2009, 12:41:54 am »
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/index.php/topic,680.0.html

The link above is for the postings of the swarm that moved into an empty hive of mine last year. The bees are still there and doing very well . The hives are some of the stuff I got off freecycle and the bees moved in for free too.....
     Sandy ,   I doubt the bees would cause any problems at all to your neighbours , but it may be an idea to quietly find out if any of them are allergic to stings (just in case !!) . It may be that some councils would have something to say about keeping bees on council land I don't know ?

cheers


Russ
   

DavidnChris

  • Guest
Re: Bee Keeping
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2009, 01:52:06 pm »
I used to live in a 'normal' house with an average sized garden about 30' kept one hive there with no trouble to us or the neighbours. Talk to them first (neighbours not the bees) and explain what's going on and why. Currently people are more aware of the shortage of bees so they will be likely to accept them. A jar of honey goes a long way too.
If you're getting bees for the first time you want to see them before you get them. Ask the seller to show you the inside of the hive, when opened up the bees should not be making a lot of noise, should not be running about all over the comb, and should not be flying about too much, there will always be some flying but not too many.
I had one hive that were lunatics, they got so agitated you couldn't see out of the veil, they were useless, I've also had ones which are very placid and gentle. Ideal for a beginner.  The Queen is the key to this difference and I use Queens from Ireland, they come in the post to England no trouble.
Do get in touch with your local association who will help. In the UK a Google search for British Beekeepers will point in the right direction.

sunnyjohn

  • Joined Jul 2008
  • Milton Keynes
Re: Bee Keeping
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2009, 03:06:29 pm »
Hi All, again,

Bees generally fly at about 15 feet from the ground except at each end of their flight; by the hive and around the flowers :bee: :bee:. They are happy to fly up steeply from the hive, and many beekeepers put up a screen to encourage them to do so, rather than fly out at 'person height' past other people's houses, paths, etc. One of those woven meshes you can get as a wind-break is fine, or you can put the hives fairly near a tall hedge to do the same thing. a six-foot barrier is usually enough, as it just sets the angle of flight to and from the hive. That way, the bees are likely to be less of a problem, and offering that may 'sweeten' the neighbours! But yes, tactfully enquiring if they have known allergies is wise. The third party insurance through the British Beekeepers' Association (BBKA) is also a wise precaution....

Unless there is a legal covenant on your property or tenancy, keeping bees is inherently legally permitted. It makes sense to check if you're not sure, but unless they are specifically excluded you can go ahead. Councils and landlords are mostly accommodating, unless you're near a school, for example.

I've known many people keep bees in urban areas, and I did for quite a few years. Some friends even kept bees on a balcony on the tenth floor! Urban areas are good, because people cultivate flowers around much of the year, so there's likely to be something for them to feed on somewhere close by. The countryside sounds better in principle, but farmers' habits of grubbing out hedges (with their attendant flowers), and cultivating 'monocrops' - killing everything else, may mean there is a glut of 'bee-food' for a week or three, and nothing before or after. Some commercial beekeepers move hives around from crop to crop to capitalise on what is in season. Commercially, farmers pay beekeepers to site hives among a crop to pollinate it. It's an important income for commercial beekeepers.

In nature, as opposed to domestic cultivated gardens, there is a gap between the spring flowers and the summer ones. Occurring about June, depending on the latitude and the seasonal weather, this is called the 'June Gap'. Recent years have been less certain in the timing of this, possibly an effect of global warming and weather changes globally, but it can still leave bees short of food at a critical time. The nest increases exponentially in spring, and a sudden dearth of food can prompt the bees to swarm, where half of the bees fly off to find richer pickings, leaving a new queen and the other half of the bees behind. So the June gap is a major swarming time.

One of the old sayings about the timing of a swarm was 'A swarm in May is worth a load of hay, a swarm in June is worth a silver spoon, and a swarm in July isn't worth a fly'. An early swarm is likely to build into a good colony and give you plenty of honey, while a later one would be less profitable, and a very late one would likely not even gather enough nectar for its' own use over winter, and would need you to feed it with sugar syrup. The unpredictability of recent years, and the progress of bee diseases and pests means that even a late swarm could be an asset the next year, while some established colonies do less well than they should because of poor crops or bad weather preventing them flying to gather food. Beekeepers tend to be fairly philosophical - by default, perhaps - and take a pragmatic view unless all their hives die out. I've suffered that; it's frustrating and bitterly disappointing, but it can happen. If it does, dust yourself off, clean up the equipment, and either buy some more bees or pray you gather a swarm!

Having an empty hive available is begging for a swarm to move in, and if there are any other bees around with a few miles,  scout bees are likely to know about your vacant hive. If you put in some frames with wax, and even the remaining smell of honey in used frames, it's called a 'baited hive', and the scout bees are even more likely to find it. But it's not a good idea to leave honey in an unpopulated hive. Wasps, mice and moths are likely to move in to scavenge the free food, and that would deter bees moving into it. And do check the hive from time to time; wax moths, that live on beeswax, regardless of any honey there, can decimate the wax, and make it unuseable for the bees. Remove any moths or lavae if you find them, and dispose of badly affected frames.

Besides praying for swarms, this is a good time of year to be cleaning up the equipment and planning the 'first inspections' for the year. You can also make up wooden frames from flat-pack components, and put in the wax yourself; they are cheaper like that. You can also make up hive parts the same way and, if you're enterprising and fancy your skills, you can make hives from scratch. All the dimensions are on the internet; look up National Hive, Langstroth, Smith, or whatever yours are. Some bits are either too difficult or not worth the effort, but hive boxes, floors, clearer boards etc are quite easy. Maybe begin with the simpler parts and experiment with the more complicated ones? Because the dimensions are standardised, you can buy some and make some and mix and match the parts. I find it makes sense to prepare several of the same bits at a time, while the machinery is set up, and then assemble them after. And it's something you can do probably on a foul day if you can't usefully work outside. Also, when the flowers thrive and the weather's kind, the bees will bring in honey at such a rate that they can fill a 'honey super' in a few days! So it pays to have a spare or two for each hive, ready to put on at a moment's notice. And as bees are opportunists, the more space they have, the more honey they will collect if they can.

If you haven't already bought any protection, I recommend a 'Sherriff' veil. Again, I have no interest in the company other than my own experience.... The Sherriff one is a hood with a flat front veil, and having tried several, I find it the best. It also unzips around the neck, so you can throw it back like a 'hoodie' to get a breath and take a cup of tea, or for driving without taking all the kit off. Being rather bald, I wear a baseball cap under it, so any mischievous bees that try to sting through the top can't reach me! I also recommend having a 'partner' in your bee-keeping. It could be someone more experienced, and help you to learn and develop confidence, but even two beginners together can bring two heads and two sets of eyes to what you're doing. But also, with inspections becoming about a weekly ritual from around April to July, it means you can cover for each other at swarming time, should either of you be unwell or have to be away. It also helps to share the hard work of lifting full hive boxes, so finding a strong friend is no bad plan!

Finally, don't forget to collect corrugated cardboard, for smoker 'cartridges'. The simpler, more flexible it is, the better. Cut it into strips about 5 inches wide, across the corrugations, and roll them into solid cylinders about 2.5 inches in diameter, fixing the end with a small piece of masking tape. Sellotape is ok, but falls off more easily, and plastic electrical tape isn't suitable when they burn. People have their own way to start them, but I find it best to use an old gas blow-lamp to get the cartdrige really alight before you put it, burning end down, in the smoker. Then, a couple of puffs gives you plenty of smoke. Check the smoker occasionally, and put in a fresh cartridge before the previous one burns away completely. It starts the next one without the blowlamp, and the last embers of a cartridge can sometimes puff out as flaming ashes and set fire to your bees! Give a few puffs to the hive you'll be opening after the one you're just working on, so the bees have a chance to react to it and calm down. Instinctively, they behave as if it's a forest fire, when they would have lived in a hole in a tree, and fire would be a serious threat. They prepare to flee, by gulping in lots of honey, ready to fly to a safe home. And like us, after a good meal, they are rather drowsy and slow! After the hive is put back together, and they don't have to fly away, they put the honey back in their wax cells and carry on with what they would normally be doing.

Just thinking about it inspires me again to get cracking with the beekeeping stuff.  :bee: :bee: :bee: :bee:

John

 

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