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Author Topic: hand rearing orphan - problem  (Read 9479 times)

horsemadmummy

  • Joined Feb 2010
hand rearing orphan - problem
« on: March 23, 2011, 03:14:23 pm »
We are hand rearing 4 orphans and they are now almost 3 weeks old they have large hayrack in their stable fresh water and creep pellets I am looking to reduce no of feeds from 4 to 3 as they will take about 450ml in a feed and one of the lambs bloats at the end of the fourth feed!

My issue is not with this lamb but rather one of the others who seems fit healthy active (all the usual signs) etc BUT when he feeds (and he eager) at the end of the feed I notice he has a small a mount of bloody froth at his mouth - not there any other time and if you didn't see it when he has finished you wouldn't know.

Any ideas?  as I said he looks fine just like the others and I was thinking of starting to let them out during the day once I have got them onto 3 feeds so advice would as always be appreciated.

horsemadmummy

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 03:31:49 pm »
Thanks WG am I right to be looking to reduce bottles down to three now they have a huge rack with last late summer haylage in and I keep it topped up at all times  and I have heard that large amounts of milk and rich grass (ours hasn't had anything on for at least 3 years) can be recepie for disaster!

Freddiesfarm

  • Joined Jan 2010
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 07:17:35 pm »
I only do 2 feeds a day cos I am sooooo mean!  The blood is as WG said probably teething or biting their tongues!

LouiseG

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Appleby-in-Westmorland
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 09:25:29 pm »
Our bottle feeding regime works along the lines of 5 feeds 1st week, 4 feeds 2nd week, 3 feeds 3rd week, 2 feeds 4th week, one feed 5th and 6th week then stop when you finish the sack of milkpowder, obviously the amount at each feed increases as the numbers decrease. and access to creep from a few days.

Good luck and enjoy them while they're little they are sooo cute  :)
So many ideas, not enough hours

horsemadmummy

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 10:29:36 pm »
thanks everyone who has posted - what is maximum amount each feed on 3  feeds 2 feeds and finally 1 feed?  should i be aiming for max 450-500mls per feed?

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 10:38:40 pm »
I have to say, I find that bottle-fed lambs do get this bloody froth as they get older and suck so very vigorously.  In previous years I've used the bucket-with-teats setup (feeds 6 at a time) and have wondered whether this exacerbates the problem.  Firstly the teats are made of harder plastic and secondly the lambs do have to compete with each other to get their share of the milk.  (I do always make sure I put lambs together who suck at a similar rate.)  This year I have acquired a 4-bottle rack, so 4 at a time get a measured individual feed and the teats are the soft 'non-vac' type.  So far no bloody mouths, but my oldest is not quite 3 weeks old yet.

I never give any lamb more than a total of 1 litre of milk a day, split into however many feeds it's getting at the moment.  And I take the bottle away / take them off the bucket as soon as their tummies start to bloat out.  Some smaller types (mules, swaledales) never need as much as 1 litre, only ever seeming to need 750-800 ml.  If a lamb seems not to be well-fleshed then you can always let that lamb have a few more sucks after it starts to bloat or, better, slip it an extra small feed.  Fresh water is always available and they do drink a surprising amount - mind, I expect they spill a great deal of it splashing about!

I try to get mine out onto grass and into the sun as soon as I can.  I seem to be able to get them to eat grass before they will eat hay.  The first time out of the 'pet pen' is always a treat - oooh, look I can jump!  Boing!  And run!  Scamper!  And turn mid air! And pogo on the spot!  (Yep, the treat is for me just as much as for them!)

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

horsemadmummy

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 09:38:16 am »
Thanks again for advice - lamblac says 1.5l a day which is why I am trying to do 3 feeds of approx 450ml a time and they drain it!!!  bottles are non vac but you are right they are almost violent with the action so I suppose that explains a lot.  All lambs are very well covered now even poorly boy and as I am wary of too much milk/grass thing they are still in side BUT they have a 12 x 8 pen with bales so they can play 'king of the castle' and run around.  They have a huge hay rack ( it was a four sided pallet) which means everyone can get at the haylage which is lovely soft meadow stuff that we took off last summer.  It seems to go down every day and so I assume they are eating it?

Creep feed is kept topped up at all times and of course fresh water.

Hopefully they are well looked after???

Next week I will cut the feeds down to two a day as previous post suggested

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 01:44:14 pm »
lamblac says 1.5l a day which is why I am trying to do 3 feeds of approx 450ml a time and they drain it!!! 

Ah, ok. I should have phrased myself differently - I never feed more than <whatever is recommended on the replacer I am using> or 1L if using Jersey milk.   :)

Hopefully they are well looked after???

Your lambs sound exceedingly well looked after.  Lucky lambs!
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

nails

  • Joined Mar 2011
  • Somerset
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 09:10:16 am »
I am currently feeding 12 lambs for a friend, it says on the lamlac bag not to give hay while on this milk, as it can delay weaning and depress the concentrate intake. Mine all have fresh water and creep, and are now out on grass as well.
All the lambs i am feeding are all different ages, so some are fed twice a day and some are still on 3 a day, the little ones are on 4 feeds a day, but go through the night without milk.
I hate weaning time as they make so much noise and i feel really guilty not giving them milk as when they see me they think i have milk for them.

horsemadmummy

  • Joined Feb 2010
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 10:45:39 am »
now i am really confused - at this time of year grass has little nutritional value and hay is dried grass why is it ok for them to have grass but not hay - given the size of my lambs who are a little over 3 weeks old they are clearly eating!!   they have both haylage and creep as well as the milk and fresh water and seem to enjoy the variety.  They start on the creep as soon as they finish the milk and they do the same with the hay.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2011, 10:58:58 am »
Well I don't have a bag of Lamblac handy to check the wording on the bag, but on a Ruminent Health course given by Kingfisher Vets (they're based in Crewkerne if I remember rightly) the vet told us that young ruminents need to be eating hay or grass within the first 7 days or their rumen will not develop correctly.

Hay will be different to grass in that it's much more dry so they'll use up more water making it digestible, and the quantity of dry matter they can ingest eating hay is much higher than eating grass (which is very bulky through being largely water so their tummies get full before they've ingested very much dry matter), which maybe is what the Lamblac people think could depress the amount of creep they eat.

At this early age, given that they are on good milk or substitute and good creep, I don't know that the nutritional value of the forage (be it hay, grass or haylage) is so important, the key thing is that they learn to eat hay (or haylage) and grass and their bodies learn to digest it.

Up to now I have always fed whichever lamb milk replacer is available on the assumption that they are all much of a muchness, but in future I think I better make sure I read the label of whatever I am using (or about to buy) a bit more carefully!

Thankfully this year so far my beautiful Jersey cow has provided enough for all the pet lambs, so the bag of powder remains unopened on the shelf.  (Oh and my pet lambs have hay in their pens - which they mostly just play with - and go out to a grassy pen on nice days, where they do learn to eat grass quite quickly.)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

nails

  • Joined Mar 2011
  • Somerset
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2011, 02:34:06 pm »
The wording on the lamlac bag says "Fresh clean water should be available at all times. Do not feed ad-lib roughage (e.g Hay) during milk feeding as this can depress concentrate intake and delay weaning"
Then it goes on to say creep should be available etc
I have just put all the bottle fed lambs out on grass now, and there is hay about, i can't watch them 24-7 and they have been eating it. Wasn't critasizing people giving hay to lambs that are bottle fed, was just wondering what damage if any it may cause them.
But i agree with Sallyintnorth's post and think it may be to do with the creep etc
Sally can you send your Jersey cow down here sounds a great way to feed lambs, and none of the hassle mixing up litres of sticky milk which seems to go everywhere.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2011, 04:29:20 pm »
The wording on the lamlac bag says "Fresh clean water should be available at all times. Do not feed ad-lib roughage (e.g Hay) during milk feeding as this can depress concentrate intake and delay weaning"
Then it goes on to say creep should be available etc

I'm thinking now...   :dunce:  It's a fact, my pet lambs do not take up eating creep as early as they might, never have.  And I have always fed hay and got them onto grass as soon as poss.  But I think I am unrepentent, in that although they've been slow to start eating creep they do get onto it at about 3 weeks to a month old and I've never (that I can recall) had a problem being unable to wean at 6 weeks-ish due to not eating enough creep yet.  So I think they do catch up ok even if it does make them a bit tardy to get started.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: hand rearing orphan - problem
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2011, 04:36:53 pm »
Sally can you send your Jersey cow down here sounds a great way to feed lambs, and none of the hassle mixing up litres of sticky milk which seems to go everywhere.

Well I adore my girl and love doing things for and with her.  So I prefer the work involved in milking her (which to me is a joy and doesn't feel like work) to the work of mixing up the powdered stuff and cleaning up all the sticky residues (yes they do go everywhere don't they!)  But if you didn't have a house cow and didn't particularly want one, I would not be telling you that it'd be less work than using milk powder!
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

 

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