Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

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CornishFarmer

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« on: February 07, 2011, 11:19:06 am »
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« Last Edit: November 24, 2011, 12:57:00 pm by Worzel Gummidge »

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2011, 12:13:34 pm »
I've recently asked the same question both here and from my vet - and was advised not to put the ram with the in lamb ewes but your circumstances may be different to mine.

One, the ram may harass the ewes and drive them off food troughs. If you're not feeding them that won't be a problem.

Two, if you have any unbred ewes he may mate with them - I have three ewe lambs running with the pregnant ewes. You may not be in the same position.

Hope thsi helps.

andywalt

  • Joined Aug 2010
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Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2011, 12:29:38 pm »
The other half of my flock lamb in April, I have a large Romney ram with them, I havent had any problems with him being in with them.
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

piggy

  • Joined Oct 2008
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2011, 01:34:09 pm »
My ram lives with my ewes to, for me it works very well,he is very tame so when i call him they all come running.Makes it nice and easy when i want to move them as i just get him to follow me and they then follow in turn.But i think it depends on your ram,mine is not at all bostrious or nasty even in the breeding season he had been very well handled when i bought him which made the 6 hour round journey to collect him very worth while.
Feeding time i have no problems either as the ewes know he has his first on 1 tray then they follow me to the 4 other troughs for theres,he is a slow eater and sticks to his own tray leaving the ewes to fight over the other 4 troughs.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2011, 02:51:42 pm »
My tup has got horns (shetland) and I take him out usually in early January the latest. It's just he's keen on the food (which he doesn't need) and is quite rough with the ewes at the through. So better out, but I know other people keep theirs in until after lambing.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2011, 03:21:49 pm »
I think leaving the ram in depends on the breed and the individual nature of the ram himself. We left a Manx Loughtan wether in with some ewes and he misbehaved horribly.  We also tried one year leaving a (I think) Shetland ram in - he started butting a ewe viciously as she went into labour, presumably because she was behaving in a way he was not used to.  We removed him and have not repeated the experimnent.  Fergie, who is on this group, has kept a Soay ram in with his ewes year round with excellent results, especially survival of the lambs with foxes around.  You can see his report on that if you search back through past posts in 'sheep'.
A Jacob ram could well be of help to the ewes in defending the lambs against foxes although when we kept Jacobs the ewes were well able to defend their lambs themselves  :D
My concerns would be as follows: That the ewes could be stressed by rammy behaviour during their pregnancies and during delivery. By this I mean that primitive rams - and Jacobs still come into that category - have a greater tendency to boss their ewes around, keeping them in one spot and so on, which could affect in-lamb ewes badly. They could also go in for the butting of ewes in labour as my tup above did.  I would also be concerned about a tup sharing the feeding given to ewes. Ewes need high protein feed coming up to lambing and this is usually given in the form of ewe pencils.  However, these contain ingredients which should not be given to rams as they cause urinary tract stones which can cause an emergency blockage.  Rams are usually fine with lambs once they are up, as far as my experience goes, but we have had a precocious Gotland lamb killed by Jacob ewes, so I wouldn't risk it.  If the ram is only the other side of the fence from his ewes he will probably be perfectly happy.  If he was to be kept well away from all other sheep then that would not be fair on him.
Jacob ewe lambs could be fertile and mature quite soon after weaning so I wouldn't risk running them in the same field as their sire.
Overall, although I understand that you want company for your ram, I feel the 'against' points overwhelm the 'for' for continuing to run him with the ewes year-round
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 12:40:08 am by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

TheCaptain

  • Joined May 2010
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2011, 07:37:49 pm »
We brought our flock of nine ewes and one ram lamb (born late-Dec 09), he has run with my ewes all year and we've just had 7 out of 9 lamb, with one looking like she'll go tonight!  Hercules (Ram lamb) has been the complete Gentleman throughout all lambings, making sure his girls have been fine.  He's been checking on his offspring when they've been born and hasn't become possessive at all.  He gets seperated off for a few nuts when the girls are getting theirs, but lets the girls eat their hay first before he has his.  He also looks after the 'gang of 6' and gets quite giddy when they're playing - very amusing, especially when the old mother hens are bleating like crazy!!! 

We've got various options for what we're going to do once the lambs have weaned.  We're either going to sell all the lambs, (3 ewes / 4 ram lambs so far) thus negating any issues of running the ram with the ewes, we'll run the rams all together and the ewes seperate, with a view to selling on the rams as breeding stock or a few other options - so much choice!!!  I think I'll be out fencing no matter what though...

darkbrowneggs

  • Joined Aug 2010
    • The World is My Lobster
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2011, 08:15:30 pm »
Kept my flock of Black Welsh Mountain all together all the time.  None of the boys were ever castrated, and were sometimes in at tupping time.  I think if the boys had been as big as dad there would have been bad fights, but as it was no problem. 

The lambs had a small creep for extra feed if they needed it, which wasn't often.

I let the young ewes take if they would, and no probs generally, but this wouldn't probably work with a big commercial flock but I could watch everyone to see they were OK.  The only time I had a lamb out of season was a very late born weakly ewe lamb must have caught late and had a lamb in July which was pretty feeble and didn't survive.  But then she just lambed normally next year.

My system wouldn't suit everyone, and I did what everyone said for the first year or two, then just did what felt good for me.  I rarely lost lambs and never lost a ewe lambing.

all the best
Sue
To follow my travel journal see http://www.theworldismylobster.org.uk

For lots of info about Marans and how to breed and look after them see www.darkbrowneggs.info

Fergie

  • Joined Oct 2009
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2011, 09:15:09 pm »
I think leaving the ram in depends on the breed and the individual nature of the ram himself.

 Fergie, who is on this group, has kept a Soay ram in with his ewes year round with excellent results, especially survival of the lambs with foxes around.  You can see his report on that if you search back through past posts in 'sheep'.


Hi Fleecewife,

yes, different rams behave differently.

We have Hebrideans & Soays, with a tup for each, as well as separate fields for last years ewe lambs & ram lambs, who are all uncastrated (I see both pros & cons for castration, but that's another discussion).  By keeping them all in separate groups, there are no problems, but the two tups faced up to each other when in adjacent fields, with much posturing & butting through the fence, but carefully measured so as to meet exactly at the fence with virtually no damage. So we moved them apart, but the Heb tup did the same with the ram lambs through the fence, and since he'd lost interest in the ewes by late January we let him join the other boys, where they all settled down together.

The Soay tup (Black Prince, ex Fleecewife) is very protective towards his ewes, and keeps them together much like a cockerel looks after his hens.  Last year he kept foxes away from the new lambs - they all lamb outside, and the Soays tend to hide under the trees next to a wild wood which is a nature reserve & full of foxes.  It's a dangerous place for small animals, but we didn't lose any Soay lambs to the fox.

Yes, he also regards it as his duty to have first taste of the food, so we provide Tup & Lamb mix which suits everyone - it might be lower protein than Ewe mix, but it avoids problems. Having had first choice he's happy to share the food, even with Roe deer who come across from the wood for their breakfast ;D ;D

John


Fergie

  • Joined Oct 2009
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2011, 09:31:23 pm »
Having had first choice he's happy to share the food, even with Roe deer who come across from the wood for their breakfast ;D ;D



I should add that if you enter the field the deer will bolt away in one direction while the Soays will run towards you :D

John

Brucklay

  • Joined Apr 2010
  • Perthshire
    • Brucklay Pygmy Goats
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Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2011, 09:42:20 pm »
A quick thank you to all above for this interesting post - I have only 4 Jacob ewes and a lovely ram - our ram's earlier companian left a few weeks ago!! so I will be going through this situation soon and my thoughts we plan one together if possible but he can be on the other side of the fence if I see anything nasty
Pygmy Goats, Shetland Sheep, Zip & Indie the Border Collies, BeeBee the cat and a wreak of a building to renovate!!

andywalt

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • kent
  • observe react administer enjoy !!
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Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2011, 07:28:20 pm »
I have my large Romney ram still with my second batch of ewes and I will let him stay until the summer when I will separete him with the other ram and put them all together with the wethers so there is no risk of him catching a ewe lamb early.

Very funny this morning, I went over to check them this morning and noticed the licky bucket was about 20 meters into the field, so I thought Id pop over the fence to retrieve it to see if empty and see if I need to buy another,.......well hitched myself over the stock fencing and started walking and straight away heard the grumbling...looked over and he came running and charging to butt me, caught the butt in my hands with a few swear words ringing out, f***** you bugger ect...and he had a further 3 or 4 more gos at me, thank god he hasnt got horns!!!  I suppose he is just being a bit protective towards his girls and sees me as another male threat..got back over the fencing swearing under my breath to see that I had an audience from the local company who have a unit in the yard...chuckles and laughter....it was very funny....so can every tell me is this normal even for placid tups which he is really?


 ;D ;D
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2011, 07:48:16 pm »
We was just concerned about in breeding and genetics. All our current flock are registered pedigree, but future pedigree status isn't important to us as we aren't into showing or breeding, we just wanted to support a rare breed for mowing and rearing our own meat for the freezer.

Can I make a plea with you on this part of your reply? I understand that you are not interested in showing - neither am I. But I woudl urge you to continue to register your young stock with the breed society. If you don't, they effectively cease to contribute to the development of the breed. Your breed society will also be able to give you help on breeding and genetics. If you animals are not registered, they aren't pedigree - although they may be pure breed. But you will have no way of proving this.

I'm not putting this very well - I hope fleecewife may add something coherent to this as there was some dicussion about this at the RBST AGM recently.

Juliet?

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Ram with rest of the flock...
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2011, 11:24:46 pm »
I was wondering about commenting on that or whether to start a whole new thread. Having bought pedigree stock because you want to support a rare breed, the only real way to support it is to register the best of your lambs, so that they in turn can breed. Most new breeders shouldn't worry about registering males, until they know the breed a whole lot better, but it would be lovely if you could pick out and register the best of the ewe lambs each year and either keep them within your own flock or sell them to another breeder.  This way you are perpetuating those bloodlines rather than creating a dead end.  If you keep some ewe lambs from your own flock, you will need to change your tup every two years, to prevent him mating with his own daughters - perhaps you could arrange to swap him with another breeder. When we kept Jacobs we ate the male lambs and any females not up to registration standard and either kept or sold the best registered ewe lambs.  We are not greatly into showing either, and in the Jacob world it's fiercely competitive, but it is a way of learning how to choose a good lamb and of meeting potential buyers of your best lambs - and other breeders for a social get-together.
I do feel very strongly that the rarer your breed is, the more obliged you are to register your youngstock - just buying pedigree stock isn't actually supporting the breed, other than to provide one breeder with a market that year.  Breeders always hope that those who buy from them will continue to register animals from those bloodlines.
You will be concerned about increasing your numbers too much and you do need to watch this carefully as the health of your flock will go down if you become overstocked. So choose carefully whether or not to keep a particular ewe lamb - will she add to the quality of your flock? Is she worth keeping but selling an older ewe to make room for her?  Or is she good but not better than those you already have?  It may be that you only register one ewe lamb each year, or even none if there are none up to standard.  But yes, please do consider maintaining the registered status of your flock, because you can't go back and register an animal which hasn't been at least birth notified to the breed society.
I'm not sure if I have added anything to Rosemary's points.............

We was just concerned about in breeding and genetics. All our current flock are registered pedigree, but future pedigree status isn't important to us as we aren't into showing or breeding, we just wanted to support a rare breed for mowing and rearing our own meat for the freezer.

Can I make a plea with you on this part of your reply? I understand that you are not interested in showing - neither am I. But I woudl urge you to continue to register your young stock with the breed society. If you don't, they effectively cease to contribute to the development of the breed. Your breed society will also be able to give you help on breeding and genetics. If you animals are not registered, they aren't pedigree - although they may be pure breed. But you will have no way of proving this.

I'm not putting this very well - I hope fleecewife may add something coherent to this as there was some dicussion about this at the RBST AGM recently.

Juliet?
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

 

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